[Talk-transit] Again about time tables, and some interesting sites

Andrei Klochko transportsplan3 at gmail.com
Mon Dec 6 13:54:46 GMT 2010

That is simply not true. I know what I am doing. And the site I intended to
make was not at all intended to work like OSM does. It would be based on a
massive participation of local, ordinary people, with hopefully very few
efforts on their part. Once I'll have gathered more than 10000 timetables,
ok, I will start really trying to get these authorizations. Because, as it
was said, did you try to contact companies, to get such authorizations? They
won't even answer you, no matter how hard you try. They WON't give you any
appointment with a person who would be entitled to give you this right to
use their data. As long as you do not represent a "major actor". You have to
capitalize data first. So you have to take this data, whenever you can take
it "by force". And I do not intend to "hope that no one will complain". I
intend to KNOW that no one will complain, or, what's more important, will BE
ABLE to complain; and for that, I will be asking and talking to as much
people as necessary. And once I know for certain,  for french law at least,
would they just try and sue me. They will be the ones to go down! This is
why i'm asking everywhere, and making noise, to get the answers I need, like
the one of Jacques. I need people who KNOW to answer me. And it is not
because they tell me "no you can't, because you can't", that I am going to
give up. Law is an equity thing. If law is ultimately on my side, with
proper defence, they won't be able to take me down! And if, ultimately, law
is on their side,  then I will keep searching a way to bypass it. I am not
just gonna wait and sit while google gets all its authorizations from the
companies, because of its cosmic wieght. This is why I got to know the
ultimate details. I need to see THE lawyer that knows precisely THIS thing!
And very precisely!
Sorry if I seem rude, I juste really want to get this done, or at least to
know I have tried everything I could. I did not mean to offend you, or
anyone else. I am just repeating what I think can be done with this
case...for what I know now.

2010/12/6 Chris Hill <osm at raggedred.net>

> Taking data in small parts, hoping no one will complain is not the way to
> do it. Get written permission to use the data in a way that is compatible to
> OSM, or leave it alone.
> --
> Cheers, Chris
> user: chillly
> On 06/12/10 13:13, Andrei Klochko wrote:
>> Ok, finally someone that really knows the case! so. First, if it is
>> like that, then a proper authorization to use the timetables and
>> routes, one by one, granted by veolia, keolis and transdev would do
>> for a great amount of pt companies in france. Correct? I happen to
>> have contacted veolia's director of developpement and innovation, who,
>> verbally, i know, told me that no o'e would ever oppose me, at least
>> in veolia, for taking these timetables, one by one, from all
>> subsidiary transporters' sites. The same for routes. If i cannot trust
>> this kind of saying...then, who can i trust? For more technical
>> details, i will send you another email, as i'm still better in french
>> than in english, especially for such technical language... but thank
>> you for someone from french pt answering, at last!
>> Le lundi 6 décembre 2010, Jacques Lys<jacques at famille-lys.com>  a écrit :
>>> Hello,
>>> I'm afraid you're wrong : Transit data are generally not freely available
>>> in France.You should know that legally, PT are the responsibility of local
>>> authorities. In fact these authorities entrust the operation of PT networks
>>> to companies which are often subsidiaries of three major groups (Keolis,
>>> Transdev and Veolia ... soon 2 because Transdev and Veolia are expected to
>>> merge!) through "Delegations de Service Public" (Delegations of Public
>>> Service) concluded for a fixed period (often 10 years).
>>> In fact, PT data are most often seen by agencies as being critical data
>>> they have to protect while submitting tender for "Delegation de Service
>>> Public".
>>> Contrary to what you seem to believe, nobody enjoys 'nice governmental
>>> jobs' in French PT (almost all agencies are under common law...) and it's
>>> not by simple jealousy that employees wanting to protect their jobs refuse
>>> to submit data!
>>> Fortunately, for some time, the trend seems to be in setting PT data free
>>> : local authorities are more and more seeing themselves as the PT data
>>> owners and some of them are planning to make those data freely available to
>>> the public. That is what comes just to be done in Rennes (Brittany), where
>>> the "Communauté d'Agglomération Rennes-Métropole" recently proposed data in
>>> GTFS format (
>>> http://www.nosdonnees.fr/package/donnees-transport-rennes-metropole).
>>> The times they are a-Changin', even in France !
>>> Cordialement.
>>> Jacques LysOpenStreetMap Contributor IT Manager in a French Transit
>>> Agency
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-transit mailing list
> Talk-transit at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-transit/attachments/20101206/76b8f03e/attachment.html>

More information about the Talk-transit mailing list