[Talk-transit] Again about time tables, and some interesting sites

Andrei Klochko transportsplan3 at gmail.com
Mon Dec 6 14:26:18 GMT 2010

Yes, in France it's even worse: "the database producer may forbid any
quantitatively or quantitatively substantial extraction from his database,
by all means and in any form"
BUT you have this counterpart: "when a database is made available to the
public by the holder of the rights, then he cannot forbid [among other
things] the extraction AND reuse of a quantitatively or qualitatively non
substantial part of the database, by the person who has licit access to it".
I only put this line here, to ask the question: what, if many different
people, decide to all take one timetable, and then reuse it as they want,
like for example, by publishing it in a centralized site? this could bypass
the problem, as these people are not part of a single company, they have no
bound with each other, they just chose to do what they are entitled to do,
i.e. reusing these timetables, in a unique web place...
But that's not all:
"The producer of a database, as intended by the person who takes the
initiative and the risk of the corresponding investments, benefits of a
protection of the content of his database, whenever the constitution, the
verification, or the presentation of this database clearly shows a
substantial human, financial or material investment". Which brings the
question: if every small transport company IS the real producer of their
timetables, then the gathering of these 10 timetables may not be big enough,
in other words won't have needed enough investment, for it to be protected
by the database right.
These are two ways I explore at the moment. There are others, and most of
all the fact, that companies did not even imagine to impose any restriction
over such reuse, "one by one". Here the data is made publicly
available...and if the transporters are the ultimate producers of the data,
then taking it from every transporter is only copying THEIR "database",
which is not big enough to make a database. You see? here, if a regional
authority has made a database on its side, I am only recreating it, and this
is what one of this regional authorities told me once! This is why I believe
this... I know this would make an exception of France, but who knows...
Have a good day
PS: we are monday, and at last, my phone will be able to get busy calling
more lawyers, and more people from the transit agencies!

2010/12/6 Michał Borsuk <michal.borsuk at gmail.com>

> Am 06.12.2010 14:54, schrieb Andrei Klochko:
>  Hi,
>> That is simply not true. I know what I am doing.
> I would like to believe it as well, but as I know copyright laws (not of
> France, but of other countries), to me it also sounds weird.
> What I could suggest is to have an official, written advice of a legal firm
> that what you want to do is indeed legal. What we simply find strange is
> that France would leave such a loophole. It is specifically closed in the
> legal systems of most other countries by stating "non-sequential reading of
> records, not leading to the copying of the entire database". And reading all
> timetables DOES NOT constitute a recreation of a database, because you are
> indeed doing a "sequential copying". It does not matter how you process the
> data, the sequential reading is important.
> Again, this is how it is defined in many countries, but perhaps not in
> France. Stay cautious. Ask another lawyer?
> Greetings, and good luck.
> --
> Best regards, mit freundlichen Grüssen, meilleurs sentiments, Pozdrowienia,
> Michał Borsuk
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