[Talk-transit] Summary of Public Transport Proposal Criticism -> a real example from Zürich

Michael von Glasow michael at vonglasow.com
Thu Feb 3 22:37:00 GMT 2011

On 02/03/2011 12:04 PM, Richard Mann wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 5:40 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy)<teddy at teddy.ch>  wrote:
>> I do not think it is a good idea to redefine thousands of used
>> railway=tram_stop.
> The problem is that railway=tram_stop is used to mean a number of
> different things, which have different geo-locations when you start
> mapping in more detail. You are emphasising one particular meaning
> (the stop area centroid), and other people emphasise another meaning
> (an indicator of the boarding location). We can't know which is
> dominant.
> To ensure basic compatibility, I suggest all schemes should use nodes
> tagged railway=tram_stop, and make them ordered members of the route
> relation with role=stop (or maybe forward_stop/backward_stop). I don't
> think we need to be prescriptive about where those nodes are placed,
> just tell people there are two basic options (on track or either side
> of the track). I think the "simplified" scheme probably _recommends_
> these nodes should in due course be beside the track, and possibly on
> platforms, and that something else (railway=tram_station) should go on
> the centroid as a courtesy tag.
I agree that the courtesy tag probably won't hurt much if mappers decide 
to use that. I would in fact tend towards using 
public_transport=stop_position, as suggested by Dominik, given that it's 
already being used. (While I consider that beyond the scope of the 
proposal, we might still keep it in mind for a future amendment).

In fact, even if we decide on placing tram stop nodes next to the way, I 
don't think the existing nodes will do much harm. They continue to be 
perfectly valid - the only information they lack is which side of the 
track they are on. It's the equivalent of representing a parking lot by 
a single point tagged "amenity=parking", or one single way tagged 
"railway=rail" going into a railway terminus of 20 or 30 platforms - not 
incorrect but just not very detailed. I wouldn't start a cleaning binge 
in my area, during the course of which I move all stops - I'd probably 
update them "on the fly" when I'm editing in the surroundings anyway.

However, making the position of the tram stop a recommendation (on the 
way is OK, but next to the way is detailed and thus preferred) sounds 
like a good compromise.


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