[Talk-transit] Revisiting the use of ref in bus stops

Sat Aug 18 04:43:00 UTC 2018

If any.  Seems there's so many unanswered questions about mapping transit
in OSM that nothing solidly uses it yet.

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 2:44 PM, Kevin Dalley <kevin at kelphead.org> wrote:

> And then we need to look at all of the mapping programs, which need to
> interpret the new info.
>
> I'll do ref for now. It's fairly common in the AC Transit space.
>
> And most stops are single agency, with other agencies stopping nearby.
>
> On 08/17/2018 11:52 AM, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
> > ref:NS, where NS is some sort of namespace code, seems like the right
> > solution.  I see two problems:
> >
> > 1. Consumers only looking at ref will see nothing.  Perhaps it should
> > contain a semicolon-list of all the values in the suffixed tags?  Now
> > we're duplicating data, which introduces the risk of the tags getting
> > out of sync, but that's easy to automate.
> >
> > 2. It creates a new meta-namespace for namespace codes, which could have
> > its own collisions.  This is probably only a problem in practice if
> > collisions are nearby, though, so it may not be worth worrying about.
> >
> > S
> >
> >
> > On 2018-08-17 07:18, Wiklund Johan wrote:
> >
> >> It doesnt really matter if the country is organized if a bus comes
> >> from abroad and uses the stop (such as FlixBus). Organized world would
> >> fix it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From:*Jo [mailto:winfixit at gmail.com]
> >> *Sent:* fredag 17. august 2018 10.05
> >> *To:* Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics
> >> <talk-transit at openstreetmap.org>
> >> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-transit] Revisiting the use of ref in bus stops
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We have 3 operators here in Belgium. I started by adding stops for 1
> >> first, so I used ref.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Then I started working on the other operator and some stops are indeed
> >> shared. The other operator has 5 subdivisions and annoyingly they all
> >> assign their own identifiers, those stops also overlap.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> For a while I added 2 nodes, sometimes 3, but that really doesn't work
> >> well.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So I merged them and now it's like this:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ref:De_Lijn for stops of De Lijn
> >>
> >> ref:TECB for stops of TEC Brabant-Wallon
> >>
> >> ref:TECC for stops of TEC Charleroi
> >>
> >> ref:TECH for stops of TEC Hainaut
> >>
> >> ref:TECN for stops of TEC Namur
> >>
> >> ref:TECL for stops of TEC Liège
> >>
> >> reft:TECX for stops of TEC Luxembourg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> It's a bit messy, so I hope they'll change that at some point in the
> >> future.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> and the stops in Brussels could simply use ref, but I don't think we
> >> know their identifiers.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In The Netherlands they are now using
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ref:IFOPT=NL:Q:78400680
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> That would be better, but you need an organised country like The
> >> Netherlands to assign them.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So, I'd say yes use ref:OPRTR, but not OPRTR:ref. You want them to
> >> sort together in the list of tags.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I also use route_ref:OPRTR
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Polyglot
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Op vr 17 aug. 2018 om 05:33 schreef Paul Johnson <baloo at ursamundi.org
> >> <mailto:baloo at ursamundi.org>>:
> >>
> >>     On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 5:55 PM, Kevin Dalley <kevin at kelphead.org
> >>     <mailto:kevin at kelphead.org>> wrote:
> >>
> >>         I am using GO-Sync, gtfs-osm-sync, to synchronize data for AC
> >>         Transit.
> >>
> >>         For AC Transit, the gtfs_id, or stop_code, can be used to
> >>         identify the
> >>         stop. That's the number on the sign, and can be as a phone code.
> >>
> >>         For example,
> >>
> >>         stop code is 56669
> >>
> >>         stop_name is: "MacArthur Blvd:Randolph Av"
> >>
> >>         stop name does not appear on the sign, though variations of
> >>         this name
> >>         appear on the schedule, usually with a "&" rather than ":".
> >>
> >>         stop_code does appear on sign.
> >>
> >>         I agree with previous users that, at least for AC Transit,
> >>         stop_code
> >>         should translated to "ref", which a defined meaning for
> bus_stop.
> >>         GO-Sync does not do this, though it would be easy to patch my
> >>         version,
> >>         at least for AC Transit.
> >>
> >>         and use stop_name as name, which is what GO-Sync does.
> >>
> >>         Are there recent thoughts on this issue?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>      I'm thinking ref on the stop needs to be entirely revisited,
> >>     given stops may be used by more than one network and therefore
> >>     have more than one ref.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     Maybe something like, say, trimet:ref=* for TriMet's stops, and
> >>     tillamook-wave:ref=* for Tillamook County's The Wave, which share
> >>     the same stop bays at Sunset Transit Center and several locations
> >>     in downtown Portland, for example.
> >>
> >>     _______________________________________________
> >>     Talk-transit mailing list
> >>     Talk-transit at openstreetmap.org <mailto:Talk-transit@
> openstreetmap.org>
> >>     https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Stephen Sprunk      "Those people who think they know everything
> > CCIE #3723         are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
> > K5SSS                                             --Isaac Asimov
> >
> >
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> >
>
>
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