[Talk-TW] Disputed Features Mapping

[謝晉凡 Hsieh Chin Fan]

Hi Jeff

I agree Dennis' reply. It is not OK to add a new relation for "viewpoint of other country" for Taiwan.

I totally agree in OSM, it is necessary to mark "disputed boundaries" for some areas. For your example: Crimea and Kashmir, they (or part of them) are taken over by different countries in recent years. 

When things are about 
1. military invasion
2. less/no habitants
3. lack of internationally recognization

It is hard to clearify who really owns an area. Claims from different countries all sound make sense.

But for Taiwan, it is a totally different story. After 1950s, there is no other entity governs Taiwan execpt R.O.C. until now. So I would not say boundary of Taiwan is disputed under OSM's on the ground principle (Except for some open-sea area).

Personally for my opinon:
1. "claim" and "disputed" are totally different things.
2. Anyone may "claim" who owns an area. But only when ownership of an area is not clear, you can call it "disputed".
3. So only when tags like disputed=yes or boundary=disputed under OSM's "on the ground principle", your proposal make sense (That is, make a new relation with claimed_by, disputed_by).

I think this opinion also fits the editing you mentioned:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/Snap

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The key point is whether Taiwan area is disputed under OSM's on the ground principle? I would say no. As Dennis says:
> I doubt it is possible to observe any boundary other than Taiwan(ROC)
administrative boundary in the field survey

It looks like the only chance this changes, is China starts an invasion for Taiwan and really controlls some cities (Just like Crimea in 2014). Consider the state between R.O.C. and CCP, it is highly possible but still not happens yet. And believe it or not, we care this more than anyone (Most of the male Taiwanese belongs to Military reserve, including me)

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> the edit I am attempting to do is a relation that redefines the admin_4 and 6 ways to a different level depending on a particular country’s viewpoint
> the intent is not to provide legitimacy for any particular claim, rather just document and model all of them.

Though you never mentioned what is "particular country", but please allow me presume it is China (Correct me if I was wrong).

We can not interfere how boundaries looks like in snapchat, but if the final result of this proposal is showing Taiwan as one of the province in China to Chinese user, I'll call it "Misleading" and agree to Dennis opinion:
> just use your own third-party databse to store such a "view of point" database.

But as a mapper, I am still very curious about your proposal in this case, could you attach the OSC file you attemped to do, also the image of final result in snapchat?


-pham (https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/typebrook)