[Talk-us-massachusetts] Why Barnstable is such a mess, and other MADness (Wayne Emerson, Jr.)

[Yury Yatsynovich]

Sure, if adding villages as admin_level=8 is relatively easy, I would
prefer this solution instead of adding addr:suburb.
When mentioning "not allowed" to import zipcodes, I was expressing my
suspicions that MassGIS may probably not have rights to distribute the
zip-code data, though, it is just my guess

On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 8:04 PM Greg Troxel <gdt at lexort.com> wrote:

> Yury Yatsynovich <yury.yatsynovich at gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Not sure. Western Mass doesn't have counties as admin_level 6 because, as
> > the note says, that "there is effectively no county-level government
> here".
>
> That is bogus, and I consider the deletion vandalism.  It may be true
> that the county government is empty, but counties are still a thing, and
> people know what county they are in, and it matters.  You have to put
> down what county you live in on all sorts of government forms, including
> searching for health insurance on the connector.  When you cross town
> lines the signs say what county you are in, at least when changing
> counties.  The Army cares about counties and has a program of getting
> information about disaster status per county, via the Military Auxiliary
> Radio System.  So I think Franklin and Hampshire county still matter and
> should have a level6 (because that's how we spell county in osm :-) on
> the map.
>
> And agreed that the named villages of many towns do not have separate
> governments.  Nor do wards and precincts, which is the other thing
> people say belong in 9 and 10.
>
> So if county deletionism prevails, we should not have level9.  But
> really we should have counties.
>
> > My suggestion would be to include addr:suburb for the cases when two or
> > more identical addresses exist within a city
>
> I strongly object to addr:suburb.  There is no established usage of
> anything named a suburb in Massaschusetts at all.  It does not appear in
> addresses.  We should not be trying to grab random notions from OSM that
> map to the way addresses are in other parts of the world and use them as
> part of fitting a database model to the osm model.   So far, I haven't
> seen an address that is more than just a word in the town slot -- partly
> because everything in the US expects names to be
>
>   house-number road-name
>   town-name, state-name  zip-code
>
> so addresses that don't fit  that pattern are too awkward and aren't
> assigned.
>
>
> >>>> 2. While checking the ???Street Name Mismatches??? is there anything
> we
> > should do on the google spreadsheet if it seems like the MAD name is
> wrong?
> >
> > I was recording what is written on the street sign (column "What is
> written
> > on street signs?") and, if OSM is wrong, correcting the street names in
> > OSM. The cases when MAD is wrong can be corrected automatically before
> the
> > import
>
> If MAD is wrong it would be helpful to talk to the town officials that
> send data to MAD, separately from the process of mapping known MAD
> erroneous names to the correct names (for variances in spelling and
> spacing and other minor stuff where it's really really obvious that it's
> the same name, munged).
>
> > Indeed, it also happens that different spelling can be seen on different
> > street signs along the same street within the same town. In such cases I
> > add a note to the Google spreadsheet that both names are possible.
> > It would be great, if we had lists with official street names to
> > resolve/automatically correct such spelling/punctuation discrepancies.
>
> MAD is an official list of names; it came from the towns.  It's just
> that official lists have errors.
>
> >>>> 4. Were the street names in MAD originally in all caps or should we
> > notify the local assessor???s office if the capitalization is wrong in
> the
> > google spreadsheet? i.e.: "J a McDermott Circle" or "Oconnor Drive"
> >
> > Wrong capitalization of names in the Google Spreadsheet (like "Oconnor
> > Drive") is a result of my code's' imperfection -- I've been recording
> such
> > cases and adding to the dictionary in the code to improve it. But, true,
> > absence of, say, " ' "- sign (shouldn't it be "O'CONNOR DRIVE" in the
> > capital case instead of "OCONNOR DRIVE"?) might be worth reporting. But,
> > again, how do we know that the official street name is not "OCONNOR
> DRIVE"?
>
> I think this is tough, and it's a really interesting question if street
> names are upper case only or if they are mixed.  Pretty obviously MAD
> thinks they are upper.   I don't know what the towns think when they
> assign them.
>
>
> >>>> 5. I have also noticed other weirdness such as where the Humarock
> >>>> section of Scituate uses Marshfield???s Zip code. Do Zip codes matter
> for
> >>>> the MAD import?
>
> zip codes are a post office thing that organizes delivering mail, and no
> more.  It is perfectly ok for a street in one town to have the zip code
> of an adjoinging town.  But the town name should match the town it is
> in.
>
> > So far I'm keeping zip codes in the files for import, but not using them
> > for any matching and, as wiki says, we are probably not allowed to import
> > zip codes.
>
> I don't follow "not allowed".  We have permission from MassGIS - are you
> saying that you think MassGIS doesn't really have rights to distribute
> zip code information?  Or that OSM shouldn't have zip codes?  Or ???
>


-- 
Yury Yatsynovich
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