[Talk-us] Highway Tagging Consensus to Improve OSM (and address some of 41 latitude's concerns)

Alex Mauer hawke at hawkesnest.net
Tue Oct 19 19:59:57 BST 2010

On 10/18/2010 04:54 PM, Anthony wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Alex Mauer<hawke at hawkesnest.net>  wrote:
>> On 10/18/2010 04:41 PM, Anthony wrote:
>>> And, in fact, that attitude is exactly why the maps currently suck.
>> And having no shields at all is a big improvent.  Oh, wait, it’s not.
> No, it's a step toward fixing the current mess.

No, fixing the renderers is what’s needed to fix the current “mess”.

>> In what strange alternate universe do you live where deleting valid
>> information which is stored following the current documented system, is not
>> vandalism?
> First of all, the ref tags aren't valid.  The numbers are references
> of *routes*, not of *ways*.

The numbers are references of neither.  “ways” is a concept built by 
openstreetmap, and has no true analogue in the real world.

You could equally say “the name tags aren’t valid; the names are 
references of *streets*, not of *ways*”.  But that’s both silly and 
irrelevant.  We have to apply the tags we have to the elements we have.

So just like applying a name= tag to a way to say “this way is part of 
the street named foo”, we must apply a ref= tag to a way to say “this 
way is part of the route with reference foo” in order to get it to show 
up on the map.  It’s what we’ve got for now; until we have something 
better we have to live with it.

> Secondly, they are redundant.  In what strange alternative universe do
> you live in where deleting redundant information is vandalism?

The world we actually live in, where sometimes you need redundant data 
in order to be able to make use of it.  At some point (hopefully) the 
renderers will be able to handle ref tags on route relations.  At that 
point, the documentation can be updated to note that applying ref tags 
to ways is deprecated (at least for routes, which AFAIK is the only 
current use of ref tags on ways).  Only then do ref tags on ways becomes 
*extraneous* as well as redundant, and they can reasonably be removed. 
And at that time I’ll be happy to be among the first to start deleting them.

Fix the renderers first.

—Alex Mauer “hawke”

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