[Talk-us] Fwd: Re: Role of the Wiki

Charlotte Wolter techlady at techlady.com
Sat Dec 8 19:32:15 GMT 2012 

Martijn,

         Your reply illustrates what is wrong with with OSM's 
approach to giving members, especially new ones, the tools they need.
         The attitude that that information is there if you are 
willing to look for it is very flawed. Any organization that wants to 
be inclusive and to encourage others to participate needs to provide 
them with information that is definitive and easy to access. 
Otherwise, OSM runs the danger of being an exclusive club of insiders 
who know all the secrets, while everyone else is essentially left out 
of the party.
         Long-term, this will lead to OSM's demise.
         OSM needs to add a lot more people, if it is to meet its 
goal of making a feature-rich accurate map of the world. But the idea 
that a newer member should be willing to search through 10 to 12 
information sources to find out how to map works completely counter 
to that goal.
         We need to create a Wiki that everyone can understand, use 
and reply on.
         I propose that we create a definitive wki, overseen by a 
working group. This would not mean that the wiki never would change. 
But it would enable a reliable, source of information for newcomers 
and, I believe, would greatly improve map quality.

Charlotte Wolter


>X-Cloudmark-Score: 0
>X-RR-Connecting-IP: 97.74.135.183
>Delivered-To: techlady at techlady.com
>X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: 
>AswBAGuuv1BZELOWlGdsb2JhbABEgmy7MQgWDgEBAQEJCwkJFAQjgh4BAQEEAQEBNwYBBQoeBAcBAgECAQIGAQYFCwMKHggIAwEdAQUBDAEFARwGEwUPh2oDDwEDCKNhjy2FWg2JTgEFDItCaQuENgOIX4IqhRqDMliBVoEcihuDMBYphDOBTA
>DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
>  h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date
>  :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type;
>  bh=6APdrewqDZZdLC2COWmiXxbtOSRGw63NurY1elHBvfo=;
>  b=lST4mlqEBn+pAkhJag1xnpsZ1OAkX0Lv2LPCuL37JcwGtcCbPPrIDpaWQ/leEhGRaL
>  4XD/AB6fXFN4UbSI68Rh8QnAJG8TyOcaQeYwwXmSlM5VPw6ZgduXiY6b1miSA2AYVEDd
>  mpKo3/1JPkE4E860JkpMqNXpboUnX7MG7Yme1RAmq0SROrBpt3kQm7bRu7CAdcNBwCfL
>  j7x+JY9bLiVntNzthGdpg27PEzEAIbwbu0GdV+k3XJQ0LyXXH6HZd0NhcJDUVpHmShwT
>  B1lFEVXZ56PebFnaPne+GF2+zjQi+9VuCSX1T5BT68QlVPMiZTGdXwEjZjyWy8talGf0
>  D4Bg==
>From: Martijn van Exel <m at rtijn.org>
>Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 13:31:09 -0700
>X-Google-Sender-Auth: P4ZS_exVjnbwoWPY7qx6us3fr34
>To: Scott Rollins <organist at gmail.com>
>Cc: OpenStreetMap Talk Mailing List <talk at openstreetmap.org>,
>  Serge Wroclawski <emacsen at gmail.com>, Jeff Meyer <jeff at gwhat.org>,
>  OpenStreetMap US Talk <talk-us at openstreetmap.org>
>Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Role of the Wiki
>X-BeenThere: talk-us at openstreetmap.org
>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14
>List-Id: OpenStreetMap USA <talk-us.openstreetmap.org>
>List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/options/talk-us>,
>  <mailto:talk-us-request at openstreetmap.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>List-Archive: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us>
>List-Post: <mailto:talk-us at openstreetmap.org>
>List-Help: <mailto:talk-us-request at openstreetmap.org?subject=help>
>List-Subscribe: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us>,
>  <mailto:talk-us-request at openstreetmap.org?subject=subscribe>
>
>No place to learn what to do? The wiki may be overwhelming, sometimes
>outdated and incorrect, or even a vehicle for personal opinions on
>tagging and whatnot, but there are definitely resources to help you
>get started. All OSM editors have useful presets for common features,
>you can't really go wrong with those. The Map Features page[1]
>describes widely used common tags. learnosm.org is there to guide you
>through first steps in OSM. And if you're looking for help or if you
>don't feel confident about your edits, there's these and other mailing
>lists, IRC, help.osm.org and forum.osm.org. OpenStreetMap US hosts
>regular Virtual Mappy Hours you can join from anywhere. There's
>Facebook, LinkedIn and Google+ pages where helpful members are always
>willing to answer questions. Some of these resources may require a
>little effort on your part, and they may not all be as well advertised
>or interconnected as they should be, but you have to realize that
>OpenStreetMap is eternally a work in progress, run entirely by
>volunteers who are working really hard to keep up with and channel
>that progress.
>
>You are apparently willing to spend your time reading these mailing
>lists, so why not be constructive about it and either ask questions to
>  help you along in your mapping efforts, or make some actionable
>suggestions about how we can do a better job explaining mapping and
>tagging to new contributors?
>
>Best,
>Martijn
>
>[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features
>
>On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 12:38 PM, Scott Rollins <organist at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I'll just say that, whether "bug" or "feature," this message perfectly
> > encapsulates why I am unwilling to spend my time working on OSM. I don't
> > want to waste my time, and by not having a good place to learn 
> what to do, I
> > have to do a whole lot of work to figure out whether the additions I'm
> > making will be useful or simply clutter up the database.
> >
> > I love the concept of OSM, and I'm glad to have the ability to use maps
> > based on OSM's work...but the setup of the project leaves me feeling unable
> > to usefully contribute.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 9:02 AM, Serge Wroclawski <emacsen at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Jeff Meyer <jeff at gwhat.org> wrote:
> >> > Hi - N00b question here:
> >> >
> >> > What's the role of the wiki as a source of information in the OSM
> >> > community?
> >>
> >> It's a mixed bag, some of the information is very good and of high
> >> quality and some is outdated, and some is of low quality.
> >>
> >> The problem is that the wiki is not a single entity, but rather a
> >> collection of the work of lots of people.
> >>
> >> And as others have said, those busy mapping often don't have
> >> time/interest to document, and those people who love documentation and
> >> process aren't always in the thick of the actual mapping- so they're
> >> giving proscriptive orders on high, with little thought to reality.
> >>
> >> > In my brief period here, I've been told things like this:
> >> >
> >> > - For tags: RTFW
> >>
> >> Most tags are well documented. Remember, OSM is a folksonomy. Tags are
> >> accepted by their use. If a tag is in heavy use, it will show up in
> >> taginfo. Some tags are very accepted (highway=residential), and others
> >> are controversial and others are just one person's opinion.
> >>
> >> In the end, "accepted" is a complex term in the OSM context. The
> >> tagging list has a process that they follow, but that doesn't mean a
> >> lot. I've had tags that I've used and propsed be argued against with
> >> vehemence on that list, only to see them later be used by others,
> >> appear as defaults in editors, etc. and still AFAIK not be on the
> >> wiki, where I've also seen tags by the taggling list be on the wiki
> >> but no one actually use.
> >>
> >> > - For relations: do NOT read the wiki & HELL YES read the wiki
> >>
> >> Relations are a complex topic. They're generally loved by those who
> >> like to talk in theory but not in practice.
> >>
> >> The problem is they're very hard to work with.
> >>
> >> > - Imports: the wiki's out of date
> >>
> >> > (Also - I've received information off IRC that conflicts with both
> >> > email &
> >> > wiki)
> >>
> >> As it's been said, everyone will give you their own opinions. No
> >> single member of our community is an authoritative source (not even
> >> SteveC).
> >>
> >> > In general, is there a method to when the wiki is or is not relevant?
> >>
> >> You eventually get a feel for it, but it's hard to know as a newbie, for
> >> sure.
> >>
> >> You can also find info at help.openstreetmap.org.
> >>
> >> - Serge
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Talk-us mailing list
> >> Talk-us at openstreetmap.org
> >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Scott Rollins, <organist at gmail.com>
> > Portsmouth, VA
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Talk-us mailing list
> > Talk-us at openstreetmap.org
> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> >
>
>
>
>--
>Martijn van Exel
>http://oegeo.wordpress.com/
>http://openstreetmap.us/
>
>_______________________________________________
>Talk-us mailing list
>Talk-us at openstreetmap.org
>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Charlotte Wolter
927 18th Street Suite A
Santa Monica, California
90403
+1-310-597-4040
techlady at techlady.com
Skype: thetechlady

The Four Internet Freedoms
Freedom to visit any site on the Internet
Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal
Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network
Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that 
would affect the first three freedoms.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/attachments/20121208/e575bef5/attachment.html>

More information about the Talk-us mailing list