[Talk-us] parcel data in OSM

[Serge Wroclawski]

On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Jason Remillard
<remillard.jason at gmail.com> wrote:


> - Imports are officially allowed. We have a process defined for doing them well.

We unfortunately don't have a process defined for doing them well. We
have DWG as an enforcement group, and I'm trying to bring together
folks for defining a process and moving imports forward. That's why
I'm trying to move things forward, so we have less of this type of
disagreement through an organized process.

> - Steve Coast, the project founder, just three months ago asked for a
> crazy huge import for addresses.

Steve suggested we need addresses. He didn't ask for a crazy huge
import. But what may not be obvious to outsiders is that Steve's
keynotes are often challenges to the community. A few years ago, he
discussed website redesign. Then he talked about the challenges of
getting and maintaining new mappers. Now it's addresses. Steve's role
in the community has and continues to evolve, and I think Steve does
an excellent job at helping us see areas where we can improve.

> When 98% of the data in US was already imported, it seems a kind of
> late to be even having this discussion.

The project evolves. We're only now seeing some of the problems we
hadn't thought of years ago. I know- I was a huge import proponent,
and did a few. So did Ian. And Frederik has run automated edits in the
past as well. The people who are the most vocal about the problems
with automated imports and automated edits are the ones who have done
the most work on it; who see the pitfalls from experience.

> It is really absurd to ask
> people who are are interested in imports to go someplace else, when
> imports are a huge part of the map in the US (this is talk-us right?),

I think this is a veiled reference to some emails you and I have
exchanged off list.

In them, you've seemed increasinly unhappy, despite being praised and
welcomed many times.

I suggested that I try never to do things I don't like, especially
with my free time, and that if you felt unhappy with OSM but wanted to
work on Free geodata an imports, that you might be happier working on
something like CommonMap, which has a different approach than OSM
does, one that focuses exclusively on freely available geodata from
large organizations such as governments.

But in that email, and in every subsequent email (as in emails before
that email), I've reiterated that I view OSM as an inclusive project
and that I want to see everyone feel welcome (as long a they're not
inappropriate or disruptive).

Of course, if you want to feel persecuted, you're free to do so. You
stated a couple of weeks ago that you felt people were "not nice" on
the list and now you're saying you're being asked to leave. Unless
it's someone else asking you to leave, then I think you may want to
re-evaluate your perceptions in the face of what is really an
incredibly welcoming community.

> I am
> frustrated that my thread was taken over like this. We should rename
> this mailing list "import-fighting-us-plus-frederik".

This is a useful discussion of the project and how we got to where we
are. Frederik's input is invaluable. He's been with the project a very
long time, as both a heavy contributor and as a commercial service
provider, and his insight is always interesting. I don't always agree
with Frederik (especially on issues of the role of the OSMF) but as I
suggested to you off list, one of the things about the community is
that we're relatively small, and relatively easy to talk to.

As for this "fighting", I see very little fighting. I see a lot of
passionate arguments being made.

I do have to say, I'm finding myself increasingly frustrated with your
approach, which is becoming increasingly personal (such as suggesting
that you're being "pushed out of the project").  Perhaps you've found
this to be a useful strategy in getting your way in other communities,
but I think you'll find that well thought out arguments backed up with
lots of data, and doing the work, will beat out innuendo and mud
slinging.

- Serge