[Talk-us] Tagging National Forests

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

> On May 10, 2016, at 10:55 AM, Mike Thompson <miketho16 at gmail.com> wrote:
> We need to be more specific as to what this means. I would suggest that this tag is only appropriate where there is active commercial cultivation of trees for timber, pulp or similar products. Steve things otherwise, and I respect his point of view and appreciate how he is making his argument.  However, if we go with a much less specific definition, such as anywhere someone can gather camp fire wood, then any land where there is a tree (with the exception of designated wilderness areas, etc) become landuse=forest.

Mmm, hang on, Mike.  When you say “Steve thinks otherwise,” I disagree:  this is exactly what I think.  Again, what we are agreeing to here is that landuse=forest means “active cultivation of trees for timber, pulp or similar products.”  (I leave out your choice of the word “commercial” because there is our local Demonstration State Forest which is publicly-owned and not all of its products are commercial, some being used for other state/public projects, for example.  But let’s not get lost in the weeds quibbling).

You also mention a “much less specific definition, such as anywhere someone can gather campfire wood” equating to “any land where there is a tree” is also landuse=forest.  I’ll go real slow here.  In OSM, a USFS can correctly has boundary (multi)polygon(s) denoted with boundary=protected_area and protect_class=6.  We agree.  A USFS is not always 100% covered with trees, so delineating it with landuse=forest is not correct.  We agree.  (This didn’t used to be true, but OSM has evolved).  A USFS often, but not always, and not in every square meter of it, allows the collection of downed wood (where trees throw off downed wood) which can be collected by its owner (US citizens/nationals), and even (when safe) this wood can be used to build a fire.  We agree.

These facts are different than your assertion of “anywhere someone can gather campfire wood.”  I can do that in my backyard, but I don’t tag it landuse=forest, nor should I.  These facts are different than “any land where there is a tree.”  “There is a tree” in my local city park, but I can’t cut it down and start a campfire, so I don’t tag landuse=forest there.  “There is a tree” (for sale) at the local plant nursery, but neither is that a commercial forest, so I shouldn’t tag it as one.

> We really have a number of different facts we are attempting to represent:
> * What is on the ground (i.e. landcover). Currently this is tagged natural=wood, but we could change to landcover=trees, or whatever we agree on.

Yes, I agree, but a fair bit more evolution, description and full-fleshing out of semantics (and very likely, real rendering) must be established for the landcover tag before we get nothing but utter confusion using it.

> * Who administers the land / has jurisdiction (e.g. US National Forest Service) - seems like we (the people participating in this thread) agree on this one.

We agree:  the boundary=protected_area tag (and others which are associated, like ownership=public, admin_level and so on) came to the rescue here.

>  * How did the landcover get there? e.g. old growth, human planted, natural secondary growth? I suggest that these be "secondary" tags. In other words, all treed areas are tagged natural=wood (or whatever tag we agree on), and tags indicating the origin of the trees be added where this information is known.

I like this.  I have seen tagging which attempts to delineate between, for example deciduous vs. evergreen or different biota of plant species, but this can be a very useful semantic to capture with appropriate tagging.

> * How is the land being used? This is where we need to come to a consensus on a more specific definition for landuse=forest - see above.

It is entirely possible that landuse=forest to denote timberland is just a starting place.  (But it is an important one, and crucially, it is well-established within the semantics of OSM tagging).

Good, GOOD!

SteveA
California