[Talk-us] Redacting 75, 000 street names contributed by user chdr

Steve Friedl steve at unixwiz.net
Sun Aug 27 17:01:11 UTC 2017

What a bummer.

I went through all the ways in California, and half of them were in Orange County where I live, so I was able to confirm / fix them via public sources - two changelists reflect the confirmation and various fixes I made while I was in the area.


The rest are all but one in San Diego (one is in Los Angeles); those marked OK in the first column can be removed from the revert list; if anybody else has good data for San Diego, then perhaps we can deal with the rest of California, which is (sadly) only a small part of the area of concern.

        5949993,"California","United States of America"         Tulagi Road, San Diego
        5957171,"California","United States of America"         South M Avenue, San Diego
        5959592,"California","United States of America"         East B Road, San Diego
        5959593,"California","United States of America"         East B Road, San Diego
        5960070,"California","United States of America"         East F Road, San Diego
        5963118,"California","United States of America"         Kingston Court East, San Diego
        5963190,"California","United States of America"         Kingston Court South, San Diego
        5963214,"California","United States of America"         Kingston Court West, San Diego
        5963786,"California","United States of America"         East I Road, San Diego
        5964547,"California","United States of America"         South R Avenue, San Diego
        5965288,"California","United States of America"         McCain Boulevard, San Diego
        5965292,"California","United States of America"         McCain Boulevard, San Diego
xx      5969001,"California","United States of America"         4th Sttreet -- fixed to "4th Street but" not confirmed
        5969167,"California","United States of America"         North 4th Street, San Diego
        5970892,"California","United States of America"         McCain West Boulevard, San Diego
        5994791,"California","United States of America"         East G Road, San Diego
        5999933,"California","United States of America"         East H Road, San Diego
        6006131,"California","United States of America"         East J Road, North Island Coronado
        6012862,"California","United States of America"         Hangar Road, North Island Coronado
        6014150,"California","United States of America"         South O Street, North Island Coronado
        6017745,"California","United States of America"         Avenida de las Arenas, San Diego
        6020277,"California","United States of America"         South Cays Court        San Diego
        6020279,"California","United States of America"         South Cays Court        San Diego
        6026197,"California","United States of America"         North Caribe Cay Boulevard      San Diego
        6049589,"California","United States of America"         O'Keefe Street  San Diego

        13337365,"California","United States of America"        55th Place  / Los Angeles
        # all these in Coto de Caza, Orange County California and confirmed/fixed
OK      13340935,"California","United States of America"        Kingfisher Court
OK      13345902,"California","United States of America"        Bentley Road
OK      31793666,"California","United States of America"        Bordeaux / Coto
OK      31793683,"California","United States of America"        Endicott / Coto
OK      31793688,"California","United States of America"        Taiga / Coto
OK      31793691,"California","United States of America"        Weather Ledge (was Weatherledge) fixed
OK      31793693,"California","United States of America"        Tucson / Coto
OK      31793694,"California","United States of America"        Lone Wolf
OK      31793706,"California","United States of America"        Loam
OK      31793713,"California","United States of America"        Shale
OK      31793722,"California","United States of America"        Vela Court
OK      31793742,"California","United States of America"        Wandering River
OK      31793744,"California","United States of America"        Hickory Fork
OK      31793748,"California","United States of America"        Sky Meadow      (was plural) fixed
OK      31793754,"California","United States of America"        Fair Valley     (location was wrong) fixed
OK      31793759,"California","United States of America"        Bent Oak
OK      31793760,"California","United States of America"        Slate Springs
OK      31793763,"California","United States of America"        Black Walnut
OK      31793765,"California","United States of America"        Knotty Oak Circle
OK      31793766,"California","United States of America"        Tortoise Shell
OK      31793777,"California","United States of America"        Weber Lane
OK      31793778,"California","United States of America"        Marchin Drive ( was Marchin Lane)       fixed
OK      31793780,"California","United States of America"        Long View Drive
OK      31793782,"California","United States of America"        Roberts Drive
OK      31793783,"California","United States of America"        Taylynn Court
OK      31793788,"California","United States of America"        Running Brook Drive
OK      31793790,"California","United States of America"        Leatherwood Court
OK      31793793,"California","United States of America"        Rand Court
OK      31793794,"California","United States of America"        Hawthorne Lane
OK      31793795,"California","United States of America"        Salinger Court
OK      31793801,"California","United States of America"        Sharon Lane
OK      31793808,"California","United States of America"        Victoria Lane
OK      31793829,"California","United States of America"        Madeline Court
OK      31793842,"California","United States of America"        Stevenson Lane
OK      31793847,"California","United States of America"        Keats Court
OK      31793878,"California","United States of America"        Elliot Lane
OK      31793883,"California","United States of America"        Raeburn Lane
OK      31793892,"California","United States of America"        Thurston Drive
OK      31793893,"California","United States of America"        Addington Place
OK      31793896,"California","United States of America"        Raeburn Lane
OK      31793908,"California","United States of America"        Rosana Way


        33407712,"California","United States of America"        Via Azul, San Diego
OK      35343440,"California","United States of America"        Bentley Road, Coto de Caza
OK      35343441,"California","United States of America"        Hawthorne Lane, Coto de Caza

        100741105,"California","United States of America"       Via Azul, San Diego
        108246340,"California","United States of America"       Via Inez, San Diego
        122741458,"California","United States of America"       Via Arezzo, San Diego
        122741459,"California","United States of America"       Via Arezzo, San Diego
        122741464,"California","United States of America"       Camino de la Rosa, San Diego
        122741465,"California","United States of America"       Via Fiesta, San Diego
        122741466,"California","United States of America"       Via Vivaldi, San Diego
        122741467,"California","United States of America"       Via Landini, San Diego
        122741468,"California","United States of America"       Via Bellini, San Diego
        122741469,"California","United States of America"       Via Bellini, San Diego
        122741699,"California","United States of America"       Camino de la Luna, San Diego
        122741702,"California","United States of America"       Delfina Drive, San Diego
        122741703,"California","United States of America"       Caminito Lazanja, San Diego
        122741969,"California","United States of America"       Lazanja Pass, San Diego
        122741970,"California","United States of America"       Caminito Santaluz Sur, San Diego
        122741971,"California","United States of America"       Caminito Santaluz Sur, San Diego
        122741974,"California","United States of America"       Caminito Santaluz Sur, San Diego
        122741976,"California","United States of America"       Entrada Lazanja, San Diego
        122741978,"California","United States of America"       Garden Trail, San Diego
        122741990,"California","United States of America"       Camino de la Rosa, San Diego
        122742004,"California","United States of America"       Garden Court, San Diego
        122742005,"California","United States of America"       Garden Terrace, San Diego

        123698524,"California","United States of America"       La Media Road, San Diego
        123698533,"California","United States of America"       Drucker Lane, San Diego

OK      129282435,"California","United States of America"       Falconridge Drive, Coto de Caza
OK      129282441,"California","United States of America"       River Rock Drive, Coto de Caza
OK      129282443,"California","United States of America"       Winston Drive, Coto de Caza
OK      129282444,"California","United States of America"       Flax Court, Coto de Caza
OK      129282448,"California","United States of America"       Devonwood Drive, Coto de Caza
OK      129282450,"California","United States of America"       Dark Horse, Coto de Caza
OK      129282451,"California","United States of America"       Marble Creek Lane, Coto de Caza
OK      129282454,"California","United States of America"       Sandy Knoll, Coto de Caza
OK      129282456,"California","United States of America"       Wellbrook Place, Coto de Caza

        155532857,"California","United States of America"       Via Verrazzano, San Diego
        155532858,"California","United States of America"       Via Verrazzano, San Diego
        158079931,"California","United States of America"       Firenze Lane, San Diego
        158079932,"California","United States of America"       Andante Lane, San Diego
        158079934,"California","United States of America"       Crescendo Lane, San Diego
        158079935,"California","United States of America"       Rancho Catalina Trail, San Diego
        158079936,"California","United States of America"       Rancho Ventana Trail, San Diego
        158079937,"California","United States of America"       Allegretto Lane, San Diego
        158079938,"California","United States of America"       Sondrio Lane, San Diego
        158079939,"California","United States of America"       Corelli Lane, San Diego
        158079940,"California","United States of America"       Soprano Lane, San Diego
        158079941,"California","United States of America"       Rancho Cabrillo Trail, San Diego

Happy Mappy.


Stephen J Friedl  | Security Consultant | UNIX Wizard | 714 345-4571
steve at unixwiz.net | Southern California | Windows Guy |  unixwiz.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Frederik Ramm [mailto:frederik at remote.org] 
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2017 6:50 AM
To: Talk Openstreetmap <talk at openstreetmap.org>; talk-us at openstreetmap.org Openstreetmap <talk-us at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: [Talk-us] Redacting 75,000 street names contributed by user chdr


   in 2010 I was privately contacted by another OSM user with the suspicion that user "chdr" might be copying names from Google maps (there were few "easter eggs" in Oman that were only on Google and not in the real world, and they suddenly popped up on OSM). "chdr" was contacted at the time, but continued unfazed. In 2013 another mapper lodged a complaint with DWG about edits by chdr, and I emailed chdr asking him about his sources. At that point chdr stopped mapping. He never replied about his sources though, even when I set an ultimatum (of 31st August 2013) threatening to remove all names he contributed if he can't tell us his source. We do have to assume that all names contributed by chdr are copyright violations.

(chdr has added names all around the world, making a harmless survey

For various reasons I neglected to act on this, and was only reminded now, 5 years later, when DWG received a complaint from a user in Brazil where chdr has even used "source=google" occasionally. (But as I said, the suspicion is that Google was used throughout.)

I have now compiled a list of all street names that were contributed by chdr and are still visible today; we're talking about almost 75,000 street names world wide. The most affected countries are:

  18023 "United States of America"
  16345 "Mexico"
  15109 "Brazil"
   6791 "RSA"
   2802 "Spain"
   2614 "Australia"
   1923 "Argentina"
   1673 "Nigeria"
   1569 "India"
   1441 "Canada"
    954 "Malaysia"
    744 "Botswana"
    717 "Philippines"
    619 "Indonesia"
    553 "Italy"
    414 "Turkey"
    290 "Hungary"
    284 "Chile"
    250 "Kenya"
    127 "Saudi Arabia"
    107 "Paraguay"
    106 "Panama"
    100 "Morocco"

I've left out those countries with less than 100 affected ways.

For the US, I can break it down by state:

   5696 "Arizona"
   5116 "Texas"
   2294 "New York"
   1164 "District of Columbia"
    740 "Iowa"
    494 "Colorado"
    416 "New Jersey"
    339 "Illinois"
    268 "Michigan"
    239 "Pennsylvania"
    181 "Missouri"
    147 "Georgia"
    129 "New Mexico"
    123 "North Carolina"
    115 "California"
    106 "Virginia"

The breakdown for Mexico:

   7749 "Baja California"
   2084 "Puebla"
   1964 "Chihuahua"
   1539 "Coahuila"
   1161 "Mexico"
   1040 "Chiapas"
    342 "Tamaulipas"
    241 "Sonora"
    185 "San Luis Potosi"
    129 "New Mexico"

and Brazil:

  10904 "São Paulo"
   2605 "Paraná"
    945 "Rio de Janeiro"
    270 "Rio Grande do Sul"
    154 "Goiás"

and South Africa:

   4422 "Gauteng"
    750 "KwaZulu-Natal"
    600 "Eastern Cape"
    439 "Western Cape"
    400 "Northern Cape"
    179 "Mpumalanga"

- each time leaving out a couple others under 100.

We believe that only names, not geometries have been taken from other maps so we'll remove and redact the names only. In identifying "names contributed by chdr" I took care to really only pick up the names that were introduced by them, not names that were there before, and also when chdr split a way that had a name I will make sure that the newly created way doesn't count as "named by chdr". Additionally, I have ignored those cases where chdr simply performed a TIGER expansion (St->Street etc) of a name that was there before.

My process has two weak points (that I am aware of):

1. It doesn't properly "follow" a chrdr-contributed name through way splits performed by other users; if someone has split a way created by chdr, then the name will remain on the bit that was created by this user. This is somewhat unsatisfying but after having manually checked a random sample I think the problem is small enough to be ignored.

2. It is possible that, like with a recent case in Switzerland where I had to do a similar redaction, some of these chdr-contributed names will have been confirmed by others in a survey, i.e. someone else surveyed the area and checked the name, but saw no need to change it in any way since it was already correct. Sadly my process will now remove the name even though, had the name not been there in the first place, that person could have added the name. This is not nice but I don't see how it could be avoided.

Here's a list of way IDs affected, with country and state:


I am trying to keep the damage to OSM to a minimum while at the same time respecting copyright. If anyone wants to spot check a few names in their area and can suggest a refinement of the process that would leave more names in place because there's reason to assume they are legit, I'm all ears.

It has been suggested to me that even if names in the US were taken from Google, Google would in turn have had them from TIGER and hence we could simply leave them be. I am not convinced of this reasoning but willing to hear that case argued.

It is sad that chdr isn't available for comment but I must take their silence as an admission of wrongdoing. I will fire off another message to them pointing to this thread.


Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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