[Talk-us] Redacting 75, 000 street names contributed by user chdr
Tod Fitch
tod at fitchdesign.com
Sun Aug 27 18:36:00 UTC 2017
Okay, slogged though the rest of the list Steve had. Nearly all match the TIGER 2015 data so should be good. Here is what I checked:
TIGER 2015 5949993,"California","United States of America" Tulagi Road, San Diego
TIGER 2015 5957171,"California","United States of America" South M Avenue, San Diego
TIGER 2015 5959592,"California","United States of America" East B Road, San Diego
TIGER 2015 5959593,"California","United States of America" East B Road, San Diego
TIGER 2015 5960070,"California","United States of America" East F Road, San Diego
???? 5963118,"California","United States of America" Kingston Court East, San Diego -- TIGER 2015 has it as Kingston East Court
???? 5963190,"California","United States of America" Kingston Court South, San Diego -- TIGER 2015 has it as Kingston South Court
???? 5963214,"California","United States of America" Kingston Court West, San Diego -- TIGER 2015 has it as Kingston West Court
TIGER 2015 5963786,"California","United States of America" East I Road, San Diego
TIGER 2015 5964547,"California","United States of America" South R Avenue, San Diego
TIGER 2015 5965288,"California","United States of America" McCain Boulevard, San Diego
TIGER 2015 5965292,"California","United States of America" McCain Boulevard, San Diego
TIGER 2015 xx 5969001,"California","United States of America" 4th Sttreet -- fixed to "4th Street but" not confirmed -- TIGER 2015 has it as 4th Street
TIGER 2015 5969167,"California","United States of America" North 4th Street, San Diego
TIGER 2015 5970892,"California","United States of America" McCain West Boulevard, San Diego
TIGER 2015 5994791,"California","United States of America" East G Road, San Diego
???? 5999933,"California","United States of America" East H Road, San Diego -- TIGER 2015 has it as "H E Road"
TIGER 2015 6006131,"California","United States of America" East J Road, North Island Coronado
Fixed 6012862,"California","United States of America" Hangar Road, North Island Coronado -- fixed to "Hanger Road" per TIGER 2015
TIGER 2015 6014150,"California","United States of America" South O Street, North Island Coronado
TIGER 2015 6017745,"California","United States of America" Avenida de las Arenas, San Diego
TIGER 2015 6020277,"California","United States of America" South Cays Court San Diego
TIGER 2015 6020279,"California","United States of America" South Cays Court San Diego
TIGER 2015 6026197,"California","United States of America" North Caribe Cay Boulevard San Diego
TIGER 2015 6049589,"California","United States of America" O'Keefe Street San Diego
???? 13337365,"California","United States of America" 55th Place / Los Angeles - TIGER 2015 has 55th Place for part and Balboa Place for the rest
33407712,"California","United States of America" Via Azul, San Diego
TIGER 2015 100741105,"California","United States of America" Via Azul, San Diego
TIGER 2015 108246340,"California","United States of America" Via Inez, San Diego
TIGER 2015 122741458,"California","United States of America" Via Arezzo, San Diego
TIGER 2015 122741459,"California","United States of America" Via Arezzo, San Diego
TIGER 2015 122741464,"California","United States of America" Camino de la Rosa, San Diego
TIGER 2015 122741465,"California","United States of America" Via Fiesta, San Diego
TIGER 2015 122741466,"California","United States of America" Via Vivaldi, San Diego
TIGER 2015 122741467,"California","United States of America" Via Landini, San Diego
TIGER 2015 122741468,"California","United States of America" Via Bellini, San Diego
TIGER 2015 122741469,"California","United States of America" Via Bellini, San Diego
TIGER 2015 122741699,"California","United States of America" Camino de la Luna, San Diego
???? 122741702,"California","United States of America" Delfina Drive, San Diego - TIGER 2015 has it as "Delfina" with no "drive", "road", etc.
TIGER 2015 122741703,"California","United States of America" Caminito Lazanja, San Diego
TIGER 2015 122741969,"California","United States of America" Lazanja Pass, San Diego
TIGER 2015 122741970,"California","United States of America" Caminito Santaluz Sur, San Diego
TIGER 2015 122741971,"California","United States of America" Caminito Santaluz Sur, San Diego
TIGER 2015 122741974,"California","United States of America" Caminito Santaluz Sur, San Diego
TIGER 2015 122741976,"California","United States of America" Entrada Lazanja, San Diego
TIGER 2015 122741978,"California","United States of America" Garden Trail, San Diego
???? 122741990,"California","United States of America" Camino de la Rosa, San Diego - TIGER 2015 has "Esplanade Sta Monica" which I think is abbreviation of "Esplanade Santa Monica"
TIGER 2015 122742004,"California","United States of America" Garden Court, San Diego
TIGER 2015 122742005,"California","United States of America" Garden Terrace, San Diego
???? 123698524,"California","United States of America" La Media Road, San Diego - TIGER 2015 agrees on north/south section but does not show road turning
TIGER 2015 123698533,"California","United States of America" Drucker Lane, San Diego
TIGER 2015 155532857,"California","United States of America" Via Verrazzano, San Diego
TIGER 2015 155532858,"California","United States of America" Via Verrazzano, San Diego
TIGER 2015 158079931,"California","United States of America" Firenze Lane, San Diego
TIGER 2015 158079932,"California","United States of America" Andante Lane, San Diego
TIGER 2015 158079934,"California","United States of America" Crescendo Lane, San Diego
TIGER 2015 158079935,"California","United States of America" Rancho Catalina Trail, San Diego
TIGER 2015 158079936,"California","United States of America" Rancho Ventana Trail, San Diego
TIGER 2015 158079937,"California","United States of America" Allegretto Lane, San Diego
TIGER 2015 158079938,"California","United States of America" Sondrio Lane, San Diego
TIGER 2015 158079939,"California","United States of America" Corelli Lane, San Diego
TIGER 2015 158079940,"California","United States of America" Soprano Lane, San Diego
TIGER 2015 158079941,"California","United States of America" Rancho Cabrillo Trail, San Diego
> On Aug 27, 2017, at 10:44 AM, Steve Friedl <steve at unixwiz.net> wrote:
>
> On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 10:31:14AM -0700, Tod Fitch wrote:
>> There was a (poorly) done import of house numbers done in San Diego county a long while back. Data from that import usually has a source tag of "SanGIS Addresses Public Domain (http://www.sangis.org/)???. I think a reasonable check for some of the questionable street names in that area could be done by verifying that at least some of the addr:steet tags along the way match with the name tag.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I attempted a clean up of that import[1] a while ago so my edits may have muddied the water. On the other hand, in areas where there were objects with address information I did review the street name and addr:street against the most recent TIGER imagery available in JOSM at the time. So there is a good chance that I reviewed many of the street names against TIGER data.
>>
>> When you reviewed Orange County, how did you do it so quickly? The only way I know to go through this is looking at each one, one at a time.
>
> One. At. A. Time.
>
> Using JOSM, I downloaded each object ID and inspected it, comparing with the
> OC Landbase, the open parcel data hosted in GIS cloud. Virtually all were
> correct in OSM.
>
> Curiously, the "official" OC Landbase had some mistakes, which I confirmed
> with (non-open) OC Assessor data and sent off corrections to OC Public
> Works, with whom I have a great relationship.
>
> Steve
>
>
>>
>> [1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/n76/diary/38088
>>
>>> On Aug 27, 2017, at 10:01 AM, Steve Friedl <steve at unixwiz.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> What a bummer.
>>>
>>> I went through all the ways in California, and half of them were in Orange County where I live, so I was able to confirm / fix them via public sources - two changelists reflect the confirmation and various fixes I made while I was in the area.
>>>
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/51485799
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/51486963
>>>
>>> The rest are all but one in San Diego (one is in Los Angeles); those marked OK in the first column can be removed from the revert list; if anybody else has good data for San Diego, then perhaps we can deal with the rest of California, which is (sadly) only a small part of the area of concern.
>>>
>>> 5949993,"California","United States of America" Tulagi Road, San Diego
>>> 5957171,"California","United States of America" South M Avenue, San Diego
>>> 5959592,"California","United States of America" East B Road, San Diego
>>> 5959593,"California","United States of America" East B Road, San Diego
>>> 5960070,"California","United States of America" East F Road, San Diego
>>> 5963118,"California","United States of America" Kingston Court East, San Diego
>>> 5963190,"California","United States of America" Kingston Court South, San Diego
>>> 5963214,"California","United States of America" Kingston Court West, San Diego
>>> 5963786,"California","United States of America" East I Road, San Diego
>>> 5964547,"California","United States of America" South R Avenue, San Diego
>>> 5965288,"California","United States of America" McCain Boulevard, San Diego
>>> 5965292,"California","United States of America" McCain Boulevard, San Diego
>>> xx 5969001,"California","United States of America" 4th Sttreet -- fixed to "4th Street but" not confirmed
>>> 5969167,"California","United States of America" North 4th Street, San Diego
>>> 5970892,"California","United States of America" McCain West Boulevard, San Diego
>>> 5994791,"California","United States of America" East G Road, San Diego
>>> 5999933,"California","United States of America" East H Road, San Diego
>>> 6006131,"California","United States of America" East J Road, North Island Coronado
>>> 6012862,"California","United States of America" Hangar Road, North Island Coronado
>>> 6014150,"California","United States of America" South O Street, North Island Coronado
>>> 6017745,"California","United States of America" Avenida de las Arenas, San Diego
>>> 6020277,"California","United States of America" South Cays Court San Diego
>>> 6020279,"California","United States of America" South Cays Court San Diego
>>> 6026197,"California","United States of America" North Caribe Cay Boulevard San Diego
>>> 6049589,"California","United States of America" O'Keefe Street San Diego
>>>
>>> 13337365,"California","United States of America" 55th Place / Los Angeles
>>> #----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> # all these in Coto de Caza, Orange County California and confirmed/fixed
>>> OK 13340935,"California","United States of America" Kingfisher Court
>>> OK 13345902,"California","United States of America" Bentley Road
>>> OK 31793666,"California","United States of America" Bordeaux / Coto
>>> OK 31793683,"California","United States of America" Endicott / Coto
>>> OK 31793688,"California","United States of America" Taiga / Coto
>>> OK 31793691,"California","United States of America" Weather Ledge (was Weatherledge) fixed
>>> OK 31793693,"California","United States of America" Tucson / Coto
>>> OK 31793694,"California","United States of America" Lone Wolf
>>> OK 31793706,"California","United States of America" Loam
>>> OK 31793713,"California","United States of America" Shale
>>> OK 31793722,"California","United States of America" Vela Court
>>> OK 31793742,"California","United States of America" Wandering River
>>> OK 31793744,"California","United States of America" Hickory Fork
>>> OK 31793748,"California","United States of America" Sky Meadow (was plural) fixed
>>> OK 31793754,"California","United States of America" Fair Valley (location was wrong) fixed
>>> OK 31793759,"California","United States of America" Bent Oak
>>> OK 31793760,"California","United States of America" Slate Springs
>>> OK 31793763,"California","United States of America" Black Walnut
>>> OK 31793765,"California","United States of America" Knotty Oak Circle
>>> OK 31793766,"California","United States of America" Tortoise Shell
>>> OK 31793777,"California","United States of America" Weber Lane
>>> OK 31793778,"California","United States of America" Marchin Drive ( was Marchin Lane) fixed
>>> OK 31793780,"California","United States of America" Long View Drive
>>> OK 31793782,"California","United States of America" Roberts Drive
>>> OK 31793783,"California","United States of America" Taylynn Court
>>> OK 31793788,"California","United States of America" Running Brook Drive
>>> OK 31793790,"California","United States of America" Leatherwood Court
>>> OK 31793793,"California","United States of America" Rand Court
>>> OK 31793794,"California","United States of America" Hawthorne Lane
>>> OK 31793795,"California","United States of America" Salinger Court
>>> OK 31793801,"California","United States of America" Sharon Lane
>>> OK 31793808,"California","United States of America" Victoria Lane
>>> OK 31793829,"California","United States of America" Madeline Court
>>> OK 31793842,"California","United States of America" Stevenson Lane
>>> OK 31793847,"California","United States of America" Keats Court
>>> OK 31793878,"California","United States of America" Elliot Lane
>>> OK 31793883,"California","United States of America" Raeburn Lane
>>> OK 31793892,"California","United States of America" Thurston Drive
>>> OK 31793893,"California","United States of America" Addington Place
>>> OK 31793896,"California","United States of America" Raeburn Lane
>>> OK 31793908,"California","United States of America" Rosana Way
>>>
>>> #------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> 33407712,"California","United States of America" Via Azul, San Diego
>>> OK 35343440,"California","United States of America" Bentley Road, Coto de Caza
>>> OK 35343441,"California","United States of America" Hawthorne Lane, Coto de Caza
>>>
>>> 100741105,"California","United States of America" Via Azul, San Diego
>>> 108246340,"California","United States of America" Via Inez, San Diego
>>> 122741458,"California","United States of America" Via Arezzo, San Diego
>>> 122741459,"California","United States of America" Via Arezzo, San Diego
>>> 122741464,"California","United States of America" Camino de la Rosa, San Diego
>>> 122741465,"California","United States of America" Via Fiesta, San Diego
>>> 122741466,"California","United States of America" Via Vivaldi, San Diego
>>> 122741467,"California","United States of America" Via Landini, San Diego
>>> 122741468,"California","United States of America" Via Bellini, San Diego
>>> 122741469,"California","United States of America" Via Bellini, San Diego
>>> 122741699,"California","United States of America" Camino de la Luna, San Diego
>>> 122741702,"California","United States of America" Delfina Drive, San Diego
>>> 122741703,"California","United States of America" Caminito Lazanja, San Diego
>>> 122741969,"California","United States of America" Lazanja Pass, San Diego
>>> 122741970,"California","United States of America" Caminito Santaluz Sur, San Diego
>>> 122741971,"California","United States of America" Caminito Santaluz Sur, San Diego
>>> 122741974,"California","United States of America" Caminito Santaluz Sur, San Diego
>>> 122741976,"California","United States of America" Entrada Lazanja, San Diego
>>> 122741978,"California","United States of America" Garden Trail, San Diego
>>> 122741990,"California","United States of America" Camino de la Rosa, San Diego
>>> 122742004,"California","United States of America" Garden Court, San Diego
>>> 122742005,"California","United States of America" Garden Terrace, San Diego
>>>
>>> 123698524,"California","United States of America" La Media Road, San Diego
>>> 123698533,"California","United States of America" Drucker Lane, San Diego
>>>
>>> OK 129282435,"California","United States of America" Falconridge Drive, Coto de Caza
>>> OK 129282441,"California","United States of America" River Rock Drive, Coto de Caza
>>> OK 129282443,"California","United States of America" Winston Drive, Coto de Caza
>>> OK 129282444,"California","United States of America" Flax Court, Coto de Caza
>>> OK 129282448,"California","United States of America" Devonwood Drive, Coto de Caza
>>> OK 129282450,"California","United States of America" Dark Horse, Coto de Caza
>>> OK 129282451,"California","United States of America" Marble Creek Lane, Coto de Caza
>>> OK 129282454,"California","United States of America" Sandy Knoll, Coto de Caza
>>> OK 129282456,"California","United States of America" Wellbrook Place, Coto de Caza
>>>
>>> 155532857,"California","United States of America" Via Verrazzano, San Diego
>>> 155532858,"California","United States of America" Via Verrazzano, San Diego
>>> 158079931,"California","United States of America" Firenze Lane, San Diego
>>> 158079932,"California","United States of America" Andante Lane, San Diego
>>> 158079934,"California","United States of America" Crescendo Lane, San Diego
>>> 158079935,"California","United States of America" Rancho Catalina Trail, San Diego
>>> 158079936,"California","United States of America" Rancho Ventana Trail, San Diego
>>> 158079937,"California","United States of America" Allegretto Lane, San Diego
>>> 158079938,"California","United States of America" Sondrio Lane, San Diego
>>> 158079939,"California","United States of America" Corelli Lane, San Diego
>>> 158079940,"California","United States of America" Soprano Lane, San Diego
>>> 158079941,"California","United States of America" Rancho Cabrillo Trail, San Diego
>>>
>>>
>>> Happy Mappy.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Stephen J Friedl | Security Consultant | UNIX Wizard | 714 345-4571
>>> steve at unixwiz.net | Southern California | Windows Guy | unixwiz.net
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Frederik Ramm [mailto:frederik at remote.org]
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2017 6:50 AM
>>> To: Talk Openstreetmap <talk at openstreetmap.org>; talk-us at openstreetmap.org Openstreetmap <talk-us at openstreetmap.org>
>>> Subject: [Talk-us] Redacting 75,000 street names contributed by user chdr
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> in 2010 I was privately contacted by another OSM user with the suspicion that user "chdr" might be copying names from Google maps (there were few "easter eggs" in Oman that were only on Google and not in the real world, and they suddenly popped up on OSM). "chdr" was contacted at the time, but continued unfazed. In 2013 another mapper lodged a complaint with DWG about edits by chdr, and I emailed chdr asking him about his sources. At that point chdr stopped mapping. He never replied about his sources though, even when I set an ultimatum (of 31st August 2013) threatening to remove all names he contributed if he can't tell us his source. We do have to assume that all names contributed by chdr are copyright violations.
>>>
>>> (chdr has added names all around the world, making a harmless survey
>>> unlikely.)
>>>
>>> For various reasons I neglected to act on this, and was only reminded now, 5 years later, when DWG received a complaint from a user in Brazil where chdr has even used "source=google" occasionally. (But as I said, the suspicion is that Google was used throughout.)
>>>
>>> I have now compiled a list of all street names that were contributed by chdr and are still visible today; we're talking about almost 75,000 street names world wide. The most affected countries are:
>>>
>>> 18023 "United States of America"
>>> 16345 "Mexico"
>>> 15109 "Brazil"
>>> 6791 "RSA"
>>> 2802 "Spain"
>>> 2614 "Australia"
>>> 1923 "Argentina"
>>> 1673 "Nigeria"
>>> 1569 "India"
>>> 1441 "Canada"
>>> 954 "Malaysia"
>>> 744 "Botswana"
>>> 717 "Philippines"
>>> 619 "Indonesia"
>>> 553 "Italy"
>>> 414 "Turkey"
>>> 290 "Hungary"
>>> 284 "Chile"
>>> 250 "Kenya"
>>> 127 "Saudi Arabia"
>>> 107 "Paraguay"
>>> 106 "Panama"
>>> 100 "Morocco"
>>>
>>> I've left out those countries with less than 100 affected ways.
>>>
>>> For the US, I can break it down by state:
>>>
>>> 5696 "Arizona"
>>> 5116 "Texas"
>>> 2294 "New York"
>>> 1164 "District of Columbia"
>>> 740 "Iowa"
>>> 494 "Colorado"
>>> 416 "New Jersey"
>>> 339 "Illinois"
>>> 268 "Michigan"
>>> 239 "Pennsylvania"
>>> 181 "Missouri"
>>> 147 "Georgia"
>>> 129 "New Mexico"
>>> 123 "North Carolina"
>>> 115 "California"
>>> 106 "Virginia"
>>>
>>> The breakdown for Mexico:
>>>
>>> 7749 "Baja California"
>>> 2084 "Puebla"
>>> 1964 "Chihuahua"
>>> 1539 "Coahuila"
>>> 1161 "Mexico"
>>> 1040 "Chiapas"
>>> 342 "Tamaulipas"
>>> 241 "Sonora"
>>> 185 "San Luis Potosi"
>>> 129 "New Mexico"
>>>
>>> and Brazil:
>>>
>>> 10904 "São Paulo"
>>> 2605 "Paraná"
>>> 945 "Rio de Janeiro"
>>> 270 "Rio Grande do Sul"
>>> 154 "Goiás"
>>>
>>> and South Africa:
>>>
>>> 4422 "Gauteng"
>>> 750 "KwaZulu-Natal"
>>> 600 "Eastern Cape"
>>> 439 "Western Cape"
>>> 400 "Northern Cape"
>>> 179 "Mpumalanga"
>>>
>>> - each time leaving out a couple others under 100.
>>>
>>> We believe that only names, not geometries have been taken from other maps so we'll remove and redact the names only. In identifying "names contributed by chdr" I took care to really only pick up the names that were introduced by them, not names that were there before, and also when chdr split a way that had a name I will make sure that the newly created way doesn't count as "named by chdr". Additionally, I have ignored those cases where chdr simply performed a TIGER expansion (St->Street etc) of a name that was there before.
>>>
>>> My process has two weak points (that I am aware of):
>>>
>>> 1. It doesn't properly "follow" a chrdr-contributed name through way splits performed by other users; if someone has split a way created by chdr, then the name will remain on the bit that was created by this user. This is somewhat unsatisfying but after having manually checked a random sample I think the problem is small enough to be ignored.
>>>
>>> 2. It is possible that, like with a recent case in Switzerland where I had to do a similar redaction, some of these chdr-contributed names will have been confirmed by others in a survey, i.e. someone else surveyed the area and checked the name, but saw no need to change it in any way since it was already correct. Sadly my process will now remove the name even though, had the name not been there in the first place, that person could have added the name. This is not nice but I don't see how it could be avoided.
>>>
>>> Here's a list of way IDs affected, with country and state:
>>>
>>> http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/chdr.details
>>>
>>> I am trying to keep the damage to OSM to a minimum while at the same time respecting copyright. If anyone wants to spot check a few names in their area and can suggest a refinement of the process that would leave more names in place because there's reason to assume they are legit, I'm all ears.
>>>
>>> It has been suggested to me that even if names in the US were taken from Google, Google would in turn have had them from TIGER and hence we could simply leave them be. I am not convinced of this reasoning but willing to hear that case argued.
>>>
>>> It is sad that chdr isn't available for comment but I must take their silence as an admission of wrongdoing. I will fire off another message to them pointing to this thread.
>>>
>>> Bye
>>> Frederik
>>>
>>> --
>>> Frederik Ramm ## eMail frederik at remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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