[Talk-us] Walmart Import

Thu Dec 28 19:48:03 UTC 2017

Hi Ilya,

This copnflation audit software tool is really good to allow multiple OSM
users to review the data before changes are made to OSM data.  I didn't
initially realize the amount of manual review of the data that is being
done prior to importing the data into OSM.

I've been reviewing a bunch of Walmarts using this tool and there will be a
lot of new good data being added to OSM through this process.  It seems
like people are generally preserving the choice of shop=supermarket or
shop=department_store and also name of "Walmart" or "Walmart Supercenter"
as the choice between the two is somewhat arbitrary.  Also, in many cases
the addr:full tag is being omitted if that same information is already
contained in existing addr:housenumber, addr:street, and addr:unit tags.

Peter

On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 6:22 AM, Ilya Zverev <ilya at zverev.info> wrote:

> Hi Peter,
>
> Thank you for the extended example of opening_hours containing holidays
> exceptions. While validating the Walmart import, I've encountered a couple
> of these, albeit simpler.
>
> My opinion on tags does not have an extra weight in relation to other
> mappers. With the introduction of the "Conflation Audit" website, to which
> I link, the data owner does not dictate which tags to overwrite as well. By
> participating in validation, you choose which tags to keep and which to
> override, and where to place imported points.
>
> For example, when seeing "24/7; Dec 25 off" on a Walmart, I clicked on
> that line, so it doesn't get overwritten on import. The line becomes
> highlighted, which means that's what will be in OSM after the import. See
> for an example this object:
>
> http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/walmart/4404
>
> Sorry I didn't get to answer earlier,
> Ilya
>
> > 22 дек. 2017 г., в 10:46, Peter Dobratz <peter at dobratz.us> написал(а):
> >
> > Ilya,
> >
> > I'm trying to wrap my head around how making this a "frictionless series
> of imports" is going to work.  So if a local mapper edits details on a
> Walmart, those details could potentially be swiftly overwritten with your
> data?
> >
> > As you can see, the opening hours for next week are non-standard due to
> the Christmas holiday.  What if someone decides they want to add that level
> of detail to the opening_hours tag:
> > opening_hours=00:00-01:00,05:00-24:00; Dec 24 5:00-18:00; Dec 25 off;
> Dec 26 06:00-24:00
> >
> > How long until you automatically replace this with "05:00-01:00" ?
> >
> > Do you see the problem with doing that?
> >
> > As you say there are differences of opinion in how things are tagged.
> Why does your opinion get to have more weight?
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 1:12 AM, Ilya Zverev <ilya at zverev.info> wrote:
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > Thank you for suggestions.
> >
> > First, the highlighted tag value is what goes into OSM. In your case,
> the import will keep the shop=department_store.
> >
> > Regarding updates to opening_hours, you are suggesting I parse each
> opening_hours value and then compare these? It would be quite hard and in
> my opinion excessive. With the two values being equivalent, I don't how the
> data becomes worse. A few times I omitted "Mo-Su", I was being told it's
> better to specify the weekdays, so it is again a matter of opinion.
> >
> > In your example, you override the definition for Monday, so it doesn't
> demonstrate anything besides how complex the opening_hours notation is.
> >
> > The rest I answered in imports@, and some of it goes against what other
> community members suggest, so again I can conclude that is a matter of
> opinion and not important one way or another:
> >
> > * URL is provided by Walmart and is much better than what we have.
> /whats-new can be fixed later, and does not really matter, because it still
> takes to a store page.
> > * addr:full is provided by Walmart and may be used to improve addressing
> where there are no addr:* tags. Sorry the importing script cannot do
> conditional tagging.
> > * operator was recommended by community members, and is a good tag to
> filter all Walmarts.
> > * ref:walmart will be used for updating the data. Ref may refer not only
> to a store, but to a building or another feature.
> >
> > Please understand that this is not a one-off handcrafted import. We are
> working on a process for frictionless series of imports, with regular
> updates later on. I understand you have mapped a Walmart and feel
> protective of it. I felt the same a few years into OSM, because everything
> you add to the map is important. With this import, I believe it does not
> make the data worse. More attributes is not bad, even if some of these are
> redundant. The main thing is, until now there were zero mappers who care
> about keeping all the Walmart stores in OSM up-to-date, and after, there
> will be more. To me, that is a good thing.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ilya
> >
> >
> > > 21 дек. 2017 г., в 1:22, Peter Dobratz <peter at dobratz.us> написал(а):
> > >
> > > Ilya,
> > >
> > > Here's a Walmart that's been built in the last few years I recently
> added to OSM:
> > >
> > > http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/walmart/5935
> > >
> > > What's currently in OSM represents my own mapping style, but I think
> it's worth discussing the differences before you change them across the
> whole country.
> > >
> > >
> > > If I read this correctly, you are planning on changing the top-level
> tag from shop=department_store to shop=supermarket.  I have been using
> shop=supermarket only for Walmarts branded as "Walmart Neighborhood Market"
> and using shop=department_store for all other Walmarts.  For me the main
> distinction is that most Walmarts have departments for things like clothing
> and electronics that don't exist in the "Walmart Neighborhood Market"
> stores.
> > >
> > >
> > > You are proposing changing the opening_hours tag from
> "00:00-01:00,05:00-24:00" to "Mo-Su 05:00-01:00".  When I'm adding opening
> hours, I avoid timespans that cross midnight as there is some difference of
> opinion as to what those timespans actually represent.  I think most people
> would say that these two opening hours are equivalent, but if you were to
> have something like "Mo-Sa 05:00-01:00; Su 10:00-22:00" this illustrates
> the problem with different interpretations of times that span midnight:
> > > http://openingh.openstreetmap.de/evaluation_tool/?EXP=Mo-Sa%
> 2005%3A00-01%3A00%3B%20Su%2010%3A00-22%3A00
> > > http://projets.pavie.info/yohours/?oh=Mo-Sa%2005:00-01:
> 00;%20Su%2010:00-22:00
> > > I also omit "Mo-Su" when writing opening_hours as, in my opinion, this
> doesn't add value to the data and from a human-readable perspective it
> looks very similar to "Mo-Sa" which of course means something different.
> Another problem with "Mo-Su" is that it is equivalent to "Su-Sa" or any of
> the other 7 possible variations.
> > > One of the problems with the opening_hours tag in general is that
> there are many ways of representing the same set of opening hours and I'm
> not aware of any efforts to establish a canonical representation for
> opening_hours.  Can you avoid updating opening_hours if the new value is
> equivalent to the old value?
> > >
> > >
> > > For the website tag, I prefer to use simple URLs:
> > > http://www.walmart.com/
> > > https://www.walmart.com/store/5935/tigard-or/whats-new
> > > The advantage to using the basic URL is that it will still continue to
> work in the future even if Walmart decides to reformat their webiste.  The
> disadvantage is that it does not go to a page specific to this particular
> store.  Reading through the imports list, I see there is already some
> discussion about whether to use the "whats-new" or "details" URL for each
> store.  What happens in a year when the "whats-new" URL no longer works?
> > >
> > >
> > > I would omit the addr:full tag at least on objects where addr:street
> and addr:housenumber already exist.
> > >
> > >
> > > I would also omit the operator=Walmart tag.  I only use operator if
> the value of the operator is different from the value of name.
> > >
> > >
> > > The object already has ref=5935.  The ref:walmart=5935 tag is
> superfluous and I would omit it.  It's fairly well established practice to
> use the plain ref tag for mapping store identifiers.  We don't need a
> separate ref:* tag for every store.
> > >
> > >
> > > Overall, I think you need to put in more effort to determine whether
> the data that you are using to overwrite existing OSM data is in fact
> better.  Since you want to get this done "before the New Year", maybe it
> would be better to just leave existing OSM tags alone for now and then
> manually check them against your dataset later.
> > >
> > > I don't have any specific examples handy, but I've seen cases where
> the data on the company website is wrong for things like postal code, house
> numbers, or streets.  Sometimes it seems that companies change their
> addresses to get their geocoding service of choice to put the placemarker
> in the right spot, so I would be especially wary of changing existing OSM
> data.
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 11:45 AM, Ilya Zverev <ilya at zverev.info>
> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > As some of you know, Brandify company wants to import all the Walmart
> locations in the US into OpenStreetMap. They have full permission to do
> that. See the message from their VP Product, Damian, for more detailed
> explanation:
> > >
> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2017-
> December/005279.html
> > >
> > > After a brief discussion on the imports@ list, they made a few
> proposed changes, and I re-uploaded the result to my imports validation
> website. Could you please look through a couple dozen points, to ensure
> they will be added to correct locations with correct tags? The more the
> better — I plan to to a few hundred myself:
> > >
> > > http://audit.osmz.ru/project/walmart
> > >
> > > I really hope we can finish this before the New Year.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Ilya
> > >
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