[Talk-us] Talk-us Digest, Vol 129, Issue 27

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

> Evin Fairchild <evindfair at gmail.com> wrote
> The only way you can get people to stop putting reg tags on ways and only put them on relations is if the renderer actually rendered reg tags from relations. Currently it doesn't do this, so

All good and correct so far...

> it's impractical for people to do what you're suggesting.

By "you" Evin means Paul Johnson and by "do what you're suggesting" — eliminating ref=* tags on ways — (as they are 100% redundant if the way is part of the appropriate route relations) Paul's suggestion is excellent.  It is correct, not impractical.

Continuing to put ref=* tags on ways is called a "workaround."  Like a bandage on a wound, workarounds can be decent short-term solutions, but the real healing which OSM must complete is for renderers to respect route relation tags.  All else is folly.

> Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, don't tag for the renderer,

OSM's tenet of "don't tag for the renderer" is something I respect.  Yet (especially in this case) it has qualities of "magical thinking" whereby the wound is artificially babied along by pretending away that the real work renderers must (MUST!) do is to fully respect long-established data structures renderers purport to represent.  If that is hard work (evidently, it is), well, let's roll up our sleeves and code (FIX!) our renderers so they properly visually represent our data.

Babying along wounds, pretending away and magical thinking are elements of sad, broken, amateurish projects:  they'll "get you through the night," and for too long in OSM, they have.  But as OSM matures into a happy, working, professional-grade project (we have, we do) that simply doesn't cut it any longer.  Someone has to say this — again and again, apparently — until the real solution of "this is hard work, but we must do it" is completed.

> but I'd you don't have route numbers show up at all, them this really reduces the usability of the map.

What a fantastic incentive to fix renderers:  evidence of "tag like we say we should tag" means "hm, renderers don't respect that!"  We can no longer say "don't code for the renderer," wink at those who do and continue to say and do this while "rendering incompletely."  It is disingenuous and shows that something is fundamentally broken in our project.  We MUST fix renderers or we DESERVE monikers of "sad, broken, amateurish."

> It's such an important thing that there's no way you can get people to stop putting the reg tags on ways unless the renderer rendered the ref tags for the whole relation.

It is circular logic (explained) and circular logic is broken.  We must fix our renderers so they fully respect our well-established data structures.  No longer can we be told "don't pay attention to that man behind the curtain" while winking and workarounds fight each other for dominance:  OSM loses (big time) in the long-run as we continue to fool ourselves with the folly of these contradictions.

The bottom line, "easy as cake, simple as pie:"  FIX WHAT IS BROKEN.  Is this difficult software development?  That's OK, let's do it.  No more excuses.  It isn't impossible to avoid contradictions, though it may be hard work.

With the greatest respect for our project,
SteveA
California