[Talk-us] Thoughts on a standard "ref" abbreviation for PA Turnpike?

Albert Pundt roadsguy99 at gmail.com
Sun Nov 11 23:33:49 UTC 2018

This would not involve adding ref=PATP to the PA Turnpike route relation.
However, thinking about it now, I think it should be added to the ways for
the sake of the Carto renderer. (I know, I know, tagging for the renderer,
but isn't Carto's use of ref tags for route markers the only reason the
tags remain on ways?) We'd need to be careful where we use PATP in
destination:ref tags, since the Turnpike shield is very rarely used once on
the Turnpike. For example, the ramps from the mainline Turnpike (I-276) to
the northbound Northeast Extension (I-476) should remain tagged as
476 and not destination:ref=I 476;PATP since that shield does not appear on
the signs. The only such use of a Turnpike shield that I know of is the
aforementioned example eastbound at Willow Grove.

"PA Turnpike XX" routes are an established type in Pennsylvania. Three
examples currently exist: 66 (New Stanton to Delmont), 43 (WV to Fairchance
and Uniontown to Jefferson Hills), and 576 (entire length, US 22 to Pgh
Int'l Airport). A relation tagged with network=US:PA:Turnpike and a
numerical ref value should trigger the use of the PA Turnpike XX
shield. This isn't simply a fancy label for a standard state route like the
yellow TOLL banners on I-376. They are treated as separate routes by
PennDOT and the PTC. Exiting US 22 near Delmont, signs say "PA 66 South, TO
PA Turnpike 66." Occasionally, an erroneous PA Turnpike XX shield pops up
for I-76, 276, or 476, but that's inaccurate. Also, the oldest part of PA
43 and the tolled part of I-376 (once PA 60) were in the past signed with a
white keystone simply saying "TOLL" at the top, but there are no remaining
routes signed this way.

On an unrelated note, thanks for linking that renderer. I used it to find
and fix some holes in PA's US 119 relation where it defaulted to using a
plain text rectangle since only the ref tag was present.

I'll start adding PATP to destination:ref tags now, but will only retag the
mainline ways if no one else has any objections.

On Sun, Nov 11, 2018 at 3:17 PM Kevin Kenny <kevin.b.kenny at gmail.com> wrote:

> The Turnpike already has a series of relations, which renderers that are
> aware of concurrent road routes are able to render.
> It's network=US:PA:Turnpike, and the relation has no ref=* since the road
> markings are unique.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/3075582
> It appears to render correctly on
> https://kbk.is-a-geek.net/catskills/test4.html?la=40.1101&lo=-75.3106&z=11
> which shows the Pike overlaid on Interstates 76, 276 and 476.
> I'd have no objection to putting ref=PATP on either the relation or the
> ways, but please let me know if you plan to change the network since my
> code needs to be aware of that.
> You might also want to consider what to do about the unusually signed
> PA-Turnpike-66 from New Stanton to Belmont.
> https://kbk.is-a-geek.net/catskills/test4.html?la=40.2748&lo=-79.6186&z=11
> shows what I'm doing with it at the moment. I'd need to check to see
> whether I put in an override or whether the network tag is different. PA 43
> from Jefferson Hills to Uniontowm
> https://kbk.is-a-geek.net/catskills/test4.html?la=40.1043&lo=-79.9194&z=11
> is another one that has Turnpike-overlaid-on-state-highway.
> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 7:52 PM Albert Pundt <roadsguy99 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Does anyone object to the use of "PATP" as the ref equivalent for the PA
>> Turnpike? Particularly for destination:ref tags, as the Turnpike
>> keystone shield is used on most guide signs for ramps onto the Turnpike.
>> However, since it's not used as a reassurance marker*, I don't think it
>> should be added as a ref tag on the ways (i.e. ref=I 76;PATP) as is done
>> on the New Jersey Turnpike, which does have its shield on pull-through
>> signs and similar.
>> This sort of abbreviation is already standard practice in New Jersey (for
>> the NJTP, GSP, and ACE) and New York (all the parkways), which have
>> standard shields used on guide signs.
>> This would apply to the mainline (I-76 and I-276) and the Northeast
>> Extension (I-476), but not the newer four extensions (PA Tpke 43, 66, 576,
>> and I-376).
>> *There is now one set of signs eastbound on the mainline PA Turnpike
>> approaching the Willow Grove (PA 611) interchange that has the PA Turnpike
>> shield on the pull-through side. However, this was put up within the past
>> two months and is not nearly common enough to base system-wide practice on.
>> —Albert Pundt
>> _______________________________________________
>> Talk-us mailing list
>> Talk-us at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

—Albert Pundt
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