[Talk-us] Forest Routes

Paul Johnson baloo at ursamundi.org
Thu Nov 29 22:47:44 UTC 2018

The numbering is consistent only within a single National Forest and
numbers will likely repeat even where multiple national forests are
contiguously adjacent.  The numbers are unique within each individual
forest, though.

On Thu, Nov 29, 2018, 16:21 Tod Fitch <tod at fitchdesign.com wrote:

> > On Nov 29, 2018, at 1:28 PM, Jack Burke <burkejf3 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > As Paul said, it depends on the type of road.  In Georgia, the signage
> > has been the brown keystone one for roads that mere mortal cars can
> > drive on:
> > https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/HD_cjbQunrGWEQCViX-Now
> >
> > And the vertical ones with FS on them for people with more advanced
> vehicles:
> > https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/3Il7nk3S4MuMX9jR_SIQnw
> >
> > And, as I said, their IVR map uses NF for all of them....
> >
> > --jack
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 3:36 PM Paul Johnson <baloo at ursamundi.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 29, 2018, 14:14 Kevin Broderick <ktb at kevinbroderick.com
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Doesn't the Forest Service use FR for "Forest Road" at the reference?
> I'd think that, or NFR to distinguish from state forest roads, would be the
> more appropriate ref, as FS is ambiguous (it doesn't distinguish between a
> forest road and a forest trail).
> >>
> >>
> >> Maybe on visitor brochures, but on signage they get keystone shields
> for two digit routes and either a vertical or horizontal rectangle sign
> (depending on whether or not motor vehicles are expected to travel) for
> minor routes, and the numbers all constitute a single network regardless of
> if it's a road or a trail.
> >>
> >> I seem to recall when I lived near a national forest that TIGER and the
> USGS would use Forest Service XX when spelling out major routes, and
> National Forest Development XXX or NFD XXXX on the minors.
> >>
> >> In either case, most people that travel in or near national forests
> regularly will find FS and NFD immediately recognizable.
> >>
> Having just been hiking and sightseeing in the Coconino National Forest,
> sightseeing in the Prescott National Forest, frequently hiking in the
> Angeles National Forest and Cleveland National Forest, occasionally hiking
> in the Coronado National Forest as well as volunteering regularly in the
> Los Padres National Forest, my impression is that signage is inconsistent
> between at least different USFS regions and likely between forests within a
> region. For example, the signage I saw in the Red Rock area of the Coconino
> NF last week were just numeric (and pretty visible) while much of the
> signage in the Los Padres is less visible and in the form of 8N05 (might be
> a “W” instead of “N” if a trail/path).
> So I think this thread is attempting to establish a higher level of
> consistency in tagging USFS roads (and possibly trails) than the USFS has
> been able to achieve itself. Not to say this is a bad thing, but I expect
> any photos of signage from one forest can be contradicted by photos of
> signage from another.
> For roads and trails with a purely numeric forest service ID, I think a
> prefix of “FR” or “FS” in OSM could make sense.
> I suspect, however, that purely numeric ID values are likely not unique
> between different forests, or if not forests then between regions. So “FS
> 525” might well exist in two different parts of the country. Is this a
> problem in OSM? Do we wish to guarantee that a search for a specific
> reference value only turn up one route?
> The forest service seems to have a unique short alphabetic code for each
> forest (at least within a region) that is displayed on the vehicles (e.g.
> LPF for Los Padres National Forest) which I think they use to keep things
> less confused when resources, especially fire crews, are dispatched to
> other forests. From that point of view those alphabetic codes might be
> useful in also tagging routes/road reference if we desire to have each
> unique USFS road/route have a unique OSM reference value.
> Cheers!
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