[Talk-us] Usage of highway=track in the United States

Thu Feb 25 18:55:34 UTC 2021

+1 for global applicability on the wiki and minimizing country specific
information.  However, it seems to me that some fairly useful information
that Brian added has now been removed:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Ahighway%3Dtrack&type=revision&diff=2117650&oldid=2117637

I thought the section on the TIGER import explaining how that has affected
the interpretation of highway=track was quite relevant.  Yes it is country
specific, but this import was massive and had a big impact for better or
worse.  I also thought some of the links to mailing list discussions (that
are otherwise hard to find) were useful.  Maybe this kind of thing could be
kept but just go at the bottom of the page?

On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 1:14 PM Brian M. Sperlongano <zelonewolf at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I made a wording edit to the title before seeing this (not to start an
> edit war or anything, just shooting for accuracy).
>
> Regarding "non-standard usage" -- who is to say what "standard" is?  I
> find that to be editorializing, i.e., implying that these usages are
> incorrect.  If there are regional variations or usages, I think that's a
> fine way to state it.  This tag hasn't gone through the proposal process
> (and I'd be skeptical that we could really agree on a global set of usage
> definitions) -- it's grown through organic usage.  So by all means, let's
> document usages that are true everywhere at the top, and list "regional
> variations" in the lower section for usages that aren't true everywhere.
> But I'm opposed to describing particular usages as wrong when they've been
> made in good faith, en masse, by mappers trying to solve real-world tagging
> challenges.
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 12:44 PM Joseph Eisenberg <
> joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> New section title which should be globally accurate:
>>
>> Non-standard usag
>>
>> In some regions the tag highway
>> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway>=track has been used in
>> other ways which are not always accepted by the community.
>>
>>    - For any unpaved minor road, regardless of usage or purpose,
>>    including residential roads and service roads. But this is considered
>>    inappropriate tagging for the renderer
>>    <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tagging_for_the_renderer> by
>>    most mappers. The tag surface
>>    <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface>=* is recommended
>>    instead.
>>    - For minor or service roads which requires a high-clearance, 4 wheel
>>    drive, or off-road vehicle for access due to a rough and bumpy, or soft and
>>    slippery surface.[1]
>>    <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dtrack#cite_note-1> However,
>>    this information can be more specifically tagged with tracktype
>>    <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tracktype>=* and smoothness
>>    <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:smoothness>=*.
>>    - Access roads in cemeteries, parks, allotment gardens, golf courses,
>>    and recreation areas. This usage may be considered appropriate in certain
>>    regions.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 9:24 AM Joseph Eisenberg <
>> joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm updating the page again because most of what we have mentioned is
>>> not only true for the USA but globally.
>>>
>>> While I understand that as Americans we are used to our opinions being
>>> extra valuable, it's important to recall that only about 10% of
>>> OpenStreetMap data and mappers are from the USA, so we should avoid having
>>> country-specific sections unless absolutely necessary, or else we will end
>>> up with a section on usage in Russia, Japan, Brazil, Germany, England,
>>> Poland, etc. for each wiki article.
>>>
>>> I've added that tracks might be used for hunting, fishing birdwatching
>>> or gathering mushrooms as examples. We already have mention of
>>> leisure/recreation via hiking, cycling, or ATV / off road vehicles too.
>>>
>>> "Note that forestry use includes also forestry use without logging, for
>>> example access for firefighting, hunting, fishing, birdwatching, gathering
>>> mushrooms, and so on."
>>>
>>> (This is at the end of the paragraph which starts "Some highway
>>> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway>=track are used for
>>> various leisure or recreation activities - hiking, cycling, or as SUV/
>>> ATV <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-terrain_vehicle> trails.")
>>>
>>> I've also updated the next section:
>>>
>>> "* There may be structures used as hunting cabins, fire lookouts,
>>> agricultural service buildings, or camping shelters, which are only
>>> accessible by a highway=track, but a road which is the primary access to a
>>> permanent residence or commercial property, such as residential driveways
>>> or industrial access roads, should be a highway=service or a higher road
>>> class."
>>>
>>> I hope this makes it clear that vacation or hunting cabins and camp
>>> shelters can be accessed only by a highway=track, just like agricultural or
>>> forestry accessory service buildings (barns, storage sheds). But I believe
>>> permanent residences, including farmhouses, isolated dwellings and
>>> industrial or commercial buildings are accessed by highway=service or a
>>> higher class
>>>
>>> Now that these clarifications are added, I think we are including
>>> basically all examples of usage in the USA which are widely considered
>>> appropriate.
>>>
>>> -- Joseph Eisenberg
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 8:06 AM Zeke Farwell <ezekielf at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 7:53 AM Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tagging something as "highway=track" without further details will be
>>>>> interpreted by almost anyone as "being available to the public".
>>>>>
>>>>> As someone who is part of the team that receives complaints from land
>>>>> owners, park managers and the like, I wonder if we as a project need to
>>>>> start exercising more caution when we carelessly claim that any track
>>>>> we
>>>>> spot on aerial imagery is usable for the general public.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Frederik, I think this is well said.  For what it's worth, I don't
>>>> interpret "highway=track" without further details as "available to the
>>>> public".  This is probably due to US usage, but to me that situation is
>>>> uncertain and just means: "Here is a track where some vehicles drive.
>>>> Legal access is unclear.  May be too rugged for some vehicles."  Or in
>>>> other words "be prepared, you're on your own!"
>>>>
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