[Talk-us] surface=chipseal vs surface=asphalt

[Dave Swarthout]

I agree with both Joseph and Mateusz on this topic.

+1  But after a few years later there is no clear difference between a road
which is an old, eroded asphalt, versus an old layer of chipseal.

+1 In some cases chipseal surface is not distinguishable from asphalt
concrete surface.In such case it is fine to tag it as surface=asphalt.

I hate driving on chipseal but it becomes better as soon as the fresh
gravel gets pressed into the softer tar matrix. At that point it is like
rough asphalt. Later on, after all the loose "chips" are either pressed
into the tar or thrown aside by passing traffic, it becomes almost
indistinguishable from regular or old asphalt. The implication being that
even if one tagged a surface as chipsealed, it would soon need to be
updated to allow for this eventual change to asphalt.

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 4:38 AM Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us <
talk-us at openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Based on discussion so far I edited page to add
>
>
> In some cases chipseal surface is not distinguishable from asphalt
> concrete surface.
> In such case it is fine to tag it as surface=asphalt.
>
> Note that this tag is rarely used and relatively unknown, most of chipseal
> surfaces is
> likely tagged surface=asphalt.
>
>
> Please comment if this made
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:surface%3Dchipseal page worse.
>
>
> Jan 24, 2021, 22:29 by irons54vortex at gmail.com:
>
> "Old chip seal" can look very much like asphalt if the organic portion has
> a relatively lower softening temperature such that the stones get mushed
> into the tar and make what seems like "asphalt in situ." If the organic
> portion has a high softening temperature, the stones will remain more on
> the surface and you can obviously tell that the road was chip sealed. The
> definition of high or low softening temperature will obviously depend on
> the local climate. A chip seal formulation applied in upper Michigan that
> would never allow the stones to sink in would turn into a sticky mess if
> used in the desert southwest.
>
>
> Kerry Irons
> Adventure Cycling Association
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Wagner <mark+osm at carnildo.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2021 4:11 PM
> To: talk-us at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] surface=chipseal vs surface=asphalt
>
> On Sat, 23 Jan 2021 19:20:35 -0500
> Richard Welty <rwelty at averillpark.net> wrote:
>
> On 1/23/21 5:48 PM, Chuck Sanders wrote:
> > Chipseal, asphalt, and concrete are three very different paving
> > materials, with very different characteristics and behavior.
> >
> > From a road engineering perspective, being able to query our
> > inventory database for exactly how much of each we have in a given
> > area is absolutely critical.
>
> > On Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 11:52 Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us
> > <talk-us at openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk-us at openstreetmap.org>>
> > wrote:
>
> > Is it something considered as substantially different from
> > regular asphalt concrete?
> >
> > Is surface=chipseal valid value or pointless duplicate of
> > surface=asphalt?
> >
>
> i agree with Chuck. the town road in front of my house is chipseal,
> not asphalt. they are distinctly different and not hard to tell apart
> once you know what to look for.
>
> riding a bicycle on fresh asphalt can be quite nice. riding a bicycle
> on fresh chipseal is literally riding on a layer of fresh gravel
> that's been dumped on top of fresh sealer. i avoid it.
>
>
> How do you tell old chipseal from old asphalt? There's a road near me that
> the county maintenance department says was chipsealed five years ago. I
> haven't tried bicycling on it, but as a driver and pedestrian, I can't tell
> it from any other paved road of similar age.
>
> --
> Mark
>
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-- 
Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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