[Talk-us] [Tagging] New MapRoulette Challenge - Add Surface to Highways

Fri Feb 3 10:50:31 UTC 2023

Users in Algeria were asked to map motorway surface in tunnels, based
on aerial imagery.

It become marked as surface=ground, see 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/490378286/history

adding surface to motorways is of so dubious utility that for example
StreetComplete is not asking to specify such surface if missing.

Overall effort/effect ratio is really bad here and effect may be more negative
than positive.

I agree that mapping surface on more minor roads is useful and in fact I am 
right now coding a better support for that in StreetComplete (surface overlay).

But mapping surface of motorways seems to not be a good use of time,
and asking others to do this is quite surprising.

Hmmmm, maybe I should implement 
"motorways are assumed to be concrete/asphalt" in StreetComplete surface overlay.

Feb 3, 2023, 10:23 by walker.t.bradley at gmail.com:

> I use routing to measure accessibility to schools and health clinics here in west Africa. I have to make sure that my models also work in South Asia. Having the surface tag attributed makes processing infinitely easier because I don’t have to adjust my default values based on country.  Across Africa, and south Asia, many secondary, primary, trunk roads are not paved. Knowing which ones are and which ones aren’t is important to me.
>
>  I understand that having tagging like this does not benefit you, but does it hurt you? If it doesn’t hurt you and it may help somebody else is there a problem?
>
> Even outside the routing world, surface tags can be used to estimate the amount of noise coming from a roadway. for example, Concrete is way louder than asphalt. Such data could be used to estimate the noise pollution levels.
>
> This is very analogous to some of the attributes that one can find on schools. Does the school have running water? Does the school have bathrooms? None of these apply in California, but all of them apply elsewhere in the world.
>
>
>
>
>> On Feb 3, 2023, at 03:25, Brian M. Sperlongano <zelonewolf at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> I see that despite this discussion, TomTom is proceeding with its quixotic quest to get mappers to tag surface tags on motorway, just now in other countries:
>>
>> https://maproulette.org/browse/challenges/37540
>>
>> Would you care to inform the community what it is that you're trying to accomplish here?
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 12:49 PM David Salmon <>> David.Salmon at tomtom.com>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you for the discussions and pointers. I’ve disabled the challenge for now and will re-evaluate with the team.
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>> Much appreciated,
>>>
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From:>>>  Brian M. Sperlongano <>>> zelonewolf at gmail.com>>> > 
>>>  >>> Sent:>>>  Friday, January 27, 2023 4:04 PM
>>>  >>> To:>>>  David Salmon <>>> David.Salmon at tomtom.com>>> >
>>>  >>> Cc:>>>  Matthew Whilden <>>> matthew.whilden at gmail.com>>> >; Eric H. Christensen <>>> eric at aehe.us>>> >; Joseph Eisenberg <>>> joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>>> >; talk-us <>>> talk-us at openstreetmap.org>>> >
>>>  >>> Subject:>>>  Re: [Talk-us] New MapRoulette Challenge - Add Surface to Highways
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You don't often get email from >>> zelonewolf at gmail.com>>> . >>>  Learn why this is important <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If all you care about is paved vs unpaved distinctions for routing, you can safely delete the challenge, because all highway=motorway in California are paved.
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 27, 2023, 3:12 PM David Salmon <>>> David.Salmon at tomtom.com>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for the questions. I checked with a couple of colleagues and Surface is used in some applications if users want to avoid Unpaved roads during a route.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don’t sense a consensus yet on the approach of using Paved versus a specific surface value. Would you prefer that I make the challenge Not Discoverable until there’s time to conclude the discussion?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alternately, if there’s a topic of higher priority or interest that you’d like to see created as an editing challenge or existing challenge where TomTom could support, I’m open to suggestions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All the best,
>>>>  David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From:>>>>  Matthew Whilden <>>>> matthew.whilden at gmail.com>>>> > 
>>>>  >>>> Sent:>>>>  Wednesday, January 25, 2023 2:01 PM
>>>>  >>>> To:>>>>  Eric H. Christensen <>>>> eric at aehe.us>>>> >
>>>>  >>>> Cc:>>>>  Joseph Eisenberg <>>>> joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>>>> >; David Salmon <>>>> David.Salmon at tomtom.com>>>> >; >>>> talk-us at openstreetmap.org
>>>>  >>>> Subject:>>>>  Re: [Talk-us] New MapRoulette Challenge - Add Surface to Highways
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You don't often get email from >>>> matthew.whilden at gmail.com>>>> . >>>> Learn why this is important <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you want to use the data for non-routing questions I'm sure specificity can help. Like, imagine I want to estimate road maintenance costs by latitude or something of that shape. 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 10:28 AM Eric H. Christensen via Talk-us <>>>> talk-us at openstreetmap.org>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------- Original Message -------
>>>>>  On Wednesday, January 25th, 2023 at 11:35, Joseph Eisenberg <>>>>> joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  > Why do we need surface=asphalt vs surface=concrete for highway=motorway?
>>>>>  > 
>>>>>  > Does this make a significant difference for any users?
>>>>>  > 
>>>>>  > I can certainly see the value of adding unpaved surface values for other classes of roads, but all motorways in the USA (and likely worldwide) will be paved
>>>>>  
>>>>>  I can see that being an assumption but unless you verify that to be true you can't just summarily add that kind of data to the set.  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  Does it make a difference?  I'm not sure.  There are definitely friction coefficient differences between the two surfaces and I'd be willing to bet that one would be more efficient to travel across than the other.  Perhaps routing engines could use this information to provide an even better, more efficient route.  Of course, that is just an idea.
>>>>>  
>>>>>  R,
>>>>>  Eric 
>>>>>  
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