[Openstreetmap] Coders needed for similar project & UKFOIactrequest update.

[Tom Carden]

Just a quick one.

Clive - your attitude to mapping copyright frankly just isn't paranoid
enough for this community to take any of your advice seriously.  Sure,
it would be easy to plot lines on Google maps (Steve and I did this
with GPX files ages ago, and the OpenStreetMap API can write to GPX...
don't you think it would have been trivial for us to link the two
together if we wanted to?)

If anyone is seriously thinking of comparing OpenStreetMap to another
mapping provider's maps for anywhere except areas you personally know
inside-out, please don't.  Don't even think about it.  And please
/please/ *please* don't sit and copy street names from one map to
another unless you made the map yourself or you know it to be out of
copyright (and correct).  We never intend to make this easy for
people, it's just too risky.  There are plenty of precedents for
mapping copyrights being defended under UK law, we have no intention
of being the next victims of that process.

Best,

Tom.



On 11/10/05, Clive Galway <evilc at evilc.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Well there is no facility to enter lines yet via the gui, so all lines
> entered into that program are OK then. You could even upload all
> openstreetmap's roads into my program using the paste CVS box, view them
> against the google maps background - by your argument, that's OK, because
> you own the tracks. You can then see which roads you have missed, even mark
> out with markers who is claiming which patch to do the traces (ie allocating
> areas to people to do traces of, keeping track of who is tracing which
> areas) - as long as all you do is upload traces as a reference and only use
> the original traces for the real openstreetmap, not any points you have
> plotted via the GUI. Lol, thinking about it the site doesn't even have to be
> visible to the internet. It runs just fine on my windows PC using WAMP (A
> windows LAMP stack) and pulls map tiles from google through my firewall -
> theres probably no way google could even know what you are overlaying onto
> their maps seeing as all they are gonna see is map tile jpegs being streamed
> to a pc behind a firewall :P I am gonna do what I am gonna do for now, I am
> just trying to put the idea to you guys that this may be a useful tool for
> helping you collect and visualize your data - In public or not...
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: openstreetmap-bounces at vr.ucl.ac.uk
> [mailto:openstreetmap-bounces at vr.ucl.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
> Richard Fairhurst
>
> Sent: 10 November 2005 01:24
>
> To: openstreetmap at vr.ucl.ac.uk
>
> Subject: Re: [Openstreetmap] Coders needed for similar project &
> UKFOIactrequest update.
>
>
>
>
> On 10 Nov 2005, at 00:46, Clive Galway wrote:
>
>
>
> > Read my argument. I argued specifically that since you can manually
>
> > enter lat long OR click on the map using my program, how can they
>
> > prove it ?
>
>
>
> They can't prove it for one single point.
>
>
>
> But for an aggregation of data, which I'd guess is what you're trying
>
> to achieve, they can argue very convincingly that some users will have
>
> clicked on the map to enter points - since you provide a UI for them to
>
> do exactly that.
>
>
>
> This makes your database a derived work, especially as you say (in your
>
> earlier e-mail) that "there is no way to tell whether it came from a
>
> gps unit or you clicked on the map - all that is stored in my database
>
> is the latitude and longitude".
>
>
>
> It's not just Steve and me who think this. Take a look at
>
> http://www.kingston.ac.uk/gis/ppt/EDINA05.pdf ,
> particularly page 16.
>
>
>
> > Also, my program allows import of points and paths from a GPS unit.
>
> > So, theoretically, if you GPSed a road or a river - surveyed it
>
> > yourself, so to speak, then just overlayed it on their map, how do
>
> > they own it ?
>
>
>
> They don't.
>
>
>
> No-one is claiming that Google ownz0rs your GPS tracks. No-one is
>
> claiming that Google owns information just by virtue of you
>
> superimposing it on their map.
>
>
>
> Rather: I have just used your map to add a point for 'the end of Elms
>
> Road' in Burton-on-Trent, Staffordshire. I did this by clicking on the
>
> point on Google Maps at the end of Elms Road.
>
>
>
> This entered a latitude of -1.6153764724731 and a longitude of
>
> 52.800945232281 into your form. I then clicked 'Save'. This wrote it to
>
> your database. (I was, of course, wrong in my previous e-mail when I
>
> said there wasn't a way to type in lat/longs directly - sorry.)
>
>
>
> Your database now contains material which is (c) TeleAtlas, Google's
>
> map supplier: the material in question being that "the end of Elms Road
>
> is at -1.6153764724731, 52.800945232281". Your database is now a
>
> derived work from TeleAtlas. A few more of these and you won't be able
>
> to legally redistribute it without their permission.
>
>
>
> Google Maps' terms of use aren't relevant - they do not overrule
>
> TeleAtlas's rights under UK statute law.
>
>
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
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