[OSM-talk] Highway tags and other junk

[Ben Robbins]

>It maybe a small and windy single lane unpaved road with passing points but 
>it is still a trunk road by the definition. Thus the highway key will have 
>the value trunk, and physical actual definition of road will be in the 
>property key/value pairs. To do otherwise is to enforce UK/western centric 
>thinking that assumes that all trunk roads have at least two lanes and are 
>paved, and results in large chunks of the world being mapped as little more 
>than tracks.

Yes.  Thats why I said if a road has a class then it would be unnesesery to 
put it under one of those 4 unclassified types.

>For the purposes of navigation we neeed to keep to the political/usage 
>highway types, regardless of the physical characteristic of the roads.

No.  becuase other people except car drivers will need the maps also.  If 
there is a byway laybled that could mean anything phisically.  It could be 
bare grass, or anything up to a fully tarmacked road.  Weather I ride down 
it would be desided on weather its suitable, wich cannot be labeled if 
political usage of the highway is what is laybed.

>as they give us a guide to priority in which we should be using the roads, 
>particulalry since they are often based on local traffic management 
>schemes. I will sight Baldock again here, where following the bypass two 
>roads; the A505 (primary route) and the A6141(trunk route), have been 
>downgraded to to seconadary routes; B656 and B197 with no diminution in 
>there physical characteristics. It is then underlying properties of the 
>route that give the guidance to the navigator/navigation software as to the 
>average speeds that can be attained along each section of the way.

Yes.  Thats why I said that tracktypes would be >additonal<.  Im not 
suggesting >replacing<.

>I have read through the tracktype proposal again and I am still of the view 
>that it is centred in a region of the UK and potentially at the point in 
>the farming calender that the survey was taken.

The ''survery'' was done between early june till now.  The seasons have 
changed.   Mud is still mud.  Stones are still stones, and grass is still 
grass.  Its just a little colder.   Please read threw the mailing list 
enteries as well, becuase Im not suggesting you havnt done so, but you don't 
understand what Im suggesting.

>The definitions refer to hedges and grass; hedges are not universaly used 
>as boundaries within the UK let alone in other parts of the world, and 
>whilst grass is common in the UK it is not elsewhere. Also the difference 
>between a Grade 4 and a Grade 5 track may only be seasonal, a track which 
>was a Grade 4 in the early part of the year when the weather is damp and 
>there is alot of activity in the fields may by the end of the summer be a 
>Grade 5.

Then you have judged the track wrongly.   I said that hedges can often 
define a tracks status.  If hedges fall either side then you no it is 
perminet to some degree.  I didnt say it must be dictated by the amount of 
hedges.  I was simple discriing the common example.   I would imagin that in 
any part of the world where a track is there for a long period vedgitation 
would grow at the sides, even if it isno a hedge so as to hold back 
livestock.  For example, in norfolk there is commonly a lack of hedges due 
to the lack of lifestock, but this doesnt change the tracktype.

>Cabanataun City and Gabaldon

Am I expected to know about this road?  Please give a link to an image.

>in the Philippines for a large part of its length it is a 'primary' route, 
>both in terms of the local and OSM definition. However for many years until 
>it was fully paved, and recently after several thyphoons in many places it 
>was/is little more than a rutted track. So the question is do you tag it 
>using the  political/usage key/value pair 'highway=primary' with the 
>property key/value pair 'surface=unpaved' or do you tag it as 
>'highway=track' with in your tag 'tracktype=grade4'? Though grade4 does not 
>fit becuase the road is in regular use by cars, and is bounded by 
>irrigation ditches not hedges, but it cannot be a grade1,2,3 because it is 
>neither paved nor does it contain gravel/hardcore and it can't be a grade5 
>because outside of the rainy season it is to hot and dry for grass to grow, 
>and if any did it would be worn away by the traffic.

As has been said many times, Im not suggesting the removal of the hihgway 
tag.  This road sounds to me (although obviously I dont no), like a 
tracktype=grade4 highway=byway/(or whatever most suitable).   This track (as 
you discrive it) appears to have access rights, so is more than just a 
track.  Again im not saying that if there is grass it is instanly this, or 
if there is mud its that.  There just some basic discriptions of tracks that 
would fall into those catagories.  Weather its used regually by cars or not 
make no difference where its grade 4.  The phisical aspects define that.  If 
it is used a lot, then this would make the track become warn down to the 
extent that it is grade 4, but that is different.  The lack of grass in the 
dryseason means nothing, and the ditches as apposed to hedges makes no 
difference.  It has borders, wich inply it has more status than just a track 
over the middle of a field.  Therfore it sounds very much like a grade 4 
track.

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