[OSM-talk] newbie stuff [was: World wide coverage?]

[Robert T Wyatt]

Thanks for the warm welcome! I'm learning. Since there have been several
responses, I've tried to put them together here, in no particular order,
but I know that readability will suffer. Sorry about that, nothing ground
shaking here if you want to move on to the next message. :-)

====
Ralf Zimmermann wrote:
> This page tries to give an overview of the available editors:
>    http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Editing
> I personally use JOSM and I like it very much.

I'm getting the hang of JOSM too. It works. It seems to me that it won't
upload my GPX tracks though, but I can do that via the Web interface.

====


Andy Robinson wrote:
> Welcome to OSM. Will try to respond to a few of your questions in your text
> below.
> Cheers
> Andy Robinson
> Andy_J_Robinson at blueyonder.co.uk

> The current slippy map does not use live data, to provide a quick
> response time its set up to use a dump of the data called "planet". The
> refresh rate of the tiles in the slippy map depends therefore on which
> planet version is being used and which renderer is utilised. Expect this
> to improve with time to the point that the slippy should generally be a
> week maximum behind the current edit condition. If you use the edit
> function via the web interface then this does use the current real time
> data. If you wish to see the fruits of your recent editing then the best
> method is probably to run Osmarender for the area of interest.

I haven't used Osmarender yet. I'll check that out. Now that I'm beginning
to understand how the slippy map is built, things are starting to fall into
place for me.

> Some of these ideas simply haven't been thought of to date. i.e. nobody
> has needed to tag their highways in this way. We are very aware that
> highways across the world vary in classification and physical
> properties. The current "Map Features" tagging system does not properly
> separate out these two aspects. I have it on my to-do list to rework a
> proper separation between the physical and the administrative.

Yes, I think this is important! In the US there can be many different
administrative bodies involved with a single road project. Which agencies
are involved can make a difference to the end user. One might ask,"What are
you talking about?" Well, one long-distance traveler might prefer to avoid
county roads, while the next might be attracted to them, for instance. Same
with interregional highways (which is what our interstates ought to be
called in the wiki--I'll try to find a definitive source before I start to
edit though); someone on a moped will want to avoid 80mph truck traffic,
but the truckers will prefer it. Yes, some of this information can be
inferred from other sources, but the Natchez Trace Parkway in Mississippi
might be a good example for us. It could be discovered as a 50mph highway
that traverses the state, but perhaps it could be better described as a
National Park roadway which prohibits truck traffic and is surrounded by
ancient Indian burial mounds and the old Pony Express route. Okay, while
the description is true maybe I'm still stretching it as far as OSM goes,
but I think the idea is valid even if I don't have the perfect example at hand.

> For the
> physical it should be possible to make certain definitions that for
> instance describe the typical configuration of a freeway lane width and
> overall construction for the USA and do the same for other locations
> around the world. With this information located and referenced centrally
> at OSM it should make the tagging of highway types in each country more
> logical. The motorway/trunk/primary etc classification methods might
> also be split by location.

Sounds like the best approach.

====
Interlug wrote:
> You may use k="lanes", v="3" in your highway ways to indicate number
> of diving lanes in each direction.
>
> You may use k="surface", v="gravel" in your highway ways to indicate
> surface composition.

Ahh, I missed those the first time I looked. So we give road width and
using number of lanes can derive lane width. Okay.

>> There should also be designations for whether hazardous cargo is allowed
>> on the road,
> Interesting.  Perhaps use the note field until you can add this to
> proposed features.

m'kay. That's reasonable. :-) So the key="notes", value="Hazardous Cargo"
or "HC" I guess the full-text is preferred. There is a US symbol (if not
international) for this, btw.

>> hurricane evacuation routes,
> Like contraflow?  Interesting again, but emergency crews will be
> over-riding many normal navigation cues anyway.  Best to watch the
> folks with the flashlights and vests, rather than the gps system.
> Useful as a note.

I wasn't thinking contraflow, but I like the way you think. I believe there
are uses for this data even when there is not a pending evacuation. It's
also possible that the data might be importable from some government
source. There are probably (exercise left for later) multiple useful
attributes of ways designated as evacuation routes. Off the top of my head,
it is pretty much guaranteed not to be a dead end--no pun intended--so even
with incomplete map data, there is useful information in this attribute.

>> like seasonal roads (the Dalton Hwy in Alaska comes to mind--one needs a
>> permit from the Governor's office to drive the road in winter).
> Other "timely" routes are included in OSM.  Best not try to use a
> ferry route without the ferry.  A seasonal ice-road would qualify as
> time-dependent.  Sounds like the Dalton Highway is a special case of a
> Toll Road.

Good points and suggestions. I'll put these ideas to use.

>> If
>> private roads are mapped, then they need to be designated as such. I've
>> seen roads that are originally cut by governments for utility lines, but
>> are maintained by the local land owner and have padlocks on access
>> gates. I'm thinking here of very large cattle ranches.
>
> There is a "gate" tag.  Perhaps add a note and mention that it is
> normally locked.  Perhaps these private roads should also render
> differently?  (Or not at all?)  Good topic for a wiki-discussion.
>
> And welcome, Robert.

I guess, like lane numbers, I missed the description of the "notes" field
on the Map Features page; I'll try to use it sparingly of course and
encourage discussion on issues that I find a need to use the notes field for.

====
Dirk-Lüder Kreie wrote:
> so in the meantime use this: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/Browse/
> to see current tiles (current as rendered by the tiles at home clients)
> unfortunately that is not a slippy map and doesn't work with lat/lon
> either, but with the tilenames themselves, see [[Slippy_map_tilenames]]
>  on the wiki for the conversion.

Didn't know about that one previously. Still don't quite understand it, but
it looks interesting and I'll give it a go over the holidays.