[OSM-talk] Residential areas

[Etienne]

On 11/1/06, Tom Chance <tom at acrewoods.net> wrote:
>
> Ahoy,
>
> On Wednesday 01 November 2006 09:54, Chris Morley wrote:
> > Etienne wrote:
> > > Does the following proposal satisfy all the requirements:
> > > 1) Preserve the current rendering behaviour of highway=residential
> (but
> > > mark it as deprecated)
> > > 2) Use highway=unclassified, residential=yes to mark up roads with
> > > houses along them
> > > 3) Use landuse=residential to demarcate the residential areas
> > > 4) Do not overlap areas that use the landuse tag unless they really do
> > > overlap and are tagged as different layers.
> >
> > If you are going to introduce a new key "residential" you might as well
> > allow it to have values left and right (based on the segment direction)
> > to handle the streets with houses on one side only. (I look forward to
> > seeing how Osmarender would deal with it.)
>
> I think this is all getting too complicated, and if we ever move to Andy's
> improved schema it will also be slightly pointless. It seems like we all
> have
> different data we'd like tagged to roads (should navigation software send
> you
> down it, are kids playing on this street, how should a pretty map render
> it,
> how does it fit into $my_country's road classification schema, etc.).
>
> I don't see what's wrong with highway=residential for now,


The problem with highway=residential is that the abbutters creep out from
under the landuse=residential zones and make the map look ugly.

Your solution was to switch off the abutters rule in Osmarender, but this is
only fine if you add landuse tags for the *whole* of area.


even if we secretly
> think of it as being shorthand highway=unclassified,residential=yes. David
> Earl makes a good point when he says that added complication will mean
> less
> complete data, and we lose no detail with the shorthand version.


It's not complicated.  Either you tag (highway=residential) or you tag
(highway=unclassified and landuse=residential).  Just dont tag
highway=residential and landuse=residential in the same place if you want
pretty results.

Everyone can carry on using highway=residential because the change is
backwards compatible.  Turning off the abutters rule in Osmarender is not a
backwards compatible solution.

I've turned
> abutters off in osmarender, but leaving them on by default and rendering
> them
> before any landuse tags means it's no big deal if they happen to render
> under
> a great big landuse=residential area.


But the problem is that some of them don't render underneath the landuse
area.  Especially those where it is residential on just one side of the road
- which is exactly the problem that the landuse tag fixes.

In the long term I really think we need to sort the whole tagging system
> out,
> because at the moment it's a confusing free-for-all with less coherence by
> the week. I'd like us to find a way to produce a Map_Features v2 that
> covers
> all foreseeable needs coherently, keeping different kinds of criteria
> (official classification, surface condition, access/speed/weight etc.
> restrictions, size, lanes, what sits on either side) in separate tags.


Totally agree.  Are there any volunteers who would be prepared to help Andy
with getting the new tagging schema out?


The new schema should also be built into the editors such that it's easy to
> whack in shorthand answers, like "this is a bog standard residential
> road",
> and to then tweak the values that implies so that, for example, a
> residential
> road has a special weight restriction or a muddy road surface rather than
> tarmac. JOSM's annotation preset feature comes close to doing this.


Agree.

So I'm opposed to Etienne's proposal, and suggest we find a way to help Andy
> work on the new, improved schema.
>


Regards,
> Tom
>
>
> --
> The struggle against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting
> - Kundera
>
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