[OSM-talk] tagging segments - Was Re: Problems with Osmarender

Etienne 80n80n at gmail.com
Mon Sep 25 09:05:25 BST 2006 

On 9/25/06, Andy Robinson <Andy_J_Robinson at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I have this same concern. If we do not make it simple and clear to users
> how
> they should override a way characteristics then there will be a lot of
> single length ways which will be no better than the original segments.
>
> I currently use segments to:
>
> 1. Override a way characteristics for a short section (similar to David
> but
> also for other reasons, including in some cases property number
> information). I'm also conscious that unless we have a tool for splitting
> a
> way it precludes anyone coming along and altering the attributes of a
> section of way. For long ways that's going to be vital. Eventually I could
> see lots of special attributes being added (as well as lots of new nodes,
> which isn't a problem) as new users come along and improve the richness of
> the data.


I tried using this technique of override tagging at the segment level for a
while but found it really difficult to see what I'd done.

When adjusting a node to make a road follow some trackpoints more closely it
is easy to move it linearly as well.  If there is information at the segment
level then you dont see it when you do this.  This resulted in me moving
several residental areas out of position.  If you are editing an area that
someone else has created it is very difficult to tell that there is tagging
at the segment level.  If the road differences are delinated by being
separate ways then it is much more obvious what is happening.

This could be improved by having better editing tools, but at the moment it
is not ideal.


2. Provide a visual means of noting where mapping has been done but more
> work is required, adding the street name and other attributes for
> instance,
> or for ways that are only partially complete. If everything is made into a
> way from the outset it will be more difficult to find incomplete work
> unless
> there is a method of displaying differently (eg ways with no tags).


I'd really like JOSM to colour nodes that have tags in a different colour to
nodes that have no tags.  Then it is easy to see if a node is just for
positioning or is there as a POI.


Etienne has noted that one of the problems with face is the increase in the
> number of tagged segments. We can redress this issue by changing the focus
> from segment creating to way creation but still permit segment creation as
> part of a way if special attributes are required. Surely that's all we
> need
> to do?


I'd go along with that if the editing tools were better and with the proviso
that all segments may one day get promoted to ways and segments as a distict
entity will cease to exist.

Etienne



Cheers
>
> Andy
>
> Andy Robinson
> Andy_J_Robinson at blueyonder.co.uk
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: talk-bounces at openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
> >bounces at openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of David Groom
> >Sent: 24 September 2006 11:35 PM
> >To: talk at openstreetmap.org
> >Subject: [OSM-talk] tagging segments - Was Re: Problems with Osmarender
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Etienne" <80n80n at gmail.com>
> >To: "Ben Robbins" <ben_robbins_ at hotmail.com>
> >Cc: <talk at openstreetmap.org>
> >Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 11:07 PM
> >Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Problems with Osmarender
> >
> >
> >> On 9/24/06, Ben Robbins <ben_robbins_ at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This doesnt seem to be the problem.  There are already a few spots
> that
> >I
> >>> had made ways without really knowing why. They didn't/don't render.
> >>
> >>
> >> Check the tags.  The ways must have a highway tag.
> >>
> >>
> >> Just to
> >>> check I made another and copied the data that was on the section that
> >>> does
> >>> render,  and it didnt render.  (I did this on a few different road
> >types)
> >>>
> >>> Also A couple of questions have come to mind.  If there is a single
> >>> segment,
> >>> how do I group that?.
> >>
> >>
> >> Make a group of one :-)
> >>
> >>
> >> Do all the segments on the way HAVE to share the exact same properties?
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, that is the definition of a way.
> >>
> >> e.g. If one street has houses at some points along it, will I have to
> >> split
> >>> the set of segments into a group of ways according to where the houses
> >>> are/are not?
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes.
> >>
> >Not had a chance to try Osmarender 3 yet, but.
> >
> >Lets consider a road, named say "The High Street", which is primarily an
> >unclassified road.  However part of it has some shops on it, and part of
> it
> >is residential.
> >
> >I had created one way, named "the high street", and tagged it as
> >unclassified, then for the segments which were residential I tagged these
> >as
> >abutters = residential, and the segments which were retail I tagged as
> >abutters = retail.  This dispaled as a nice road, with one name on it,
> and
> >the abutterts coloured as needed.
> >
> >Am I to understand this will not now display, and that to display the
> road
> >I
> >will now have to create three ways, on e way tagged as highway =
> >residential, one tagged as highway = unclassified, and one tagged as
> >highway
> >= retail (is this latter one even valid?)
> >
> >David
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> Ben
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: Etienne <80n80n at gmail.com>
> >>> To: "Ben Robbins" <ben_robbins_ at hotmail.com>
> >>> CC: talk at openstreetmap.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Problems with Osmarender
> >>> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:17:31 +0100
> >>>
> >>> On 9/24/06, Ben Robbins <ben_robbins_ at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >Cheers for the reply, but i think it leads me onto my next question,
> >>> >wich
> >>> >is
> >>> >what exactly are ways, and how do I do them?
> >>> >
> >>> >I have made all the roads in the area im trying to render
> >>> >'highway=xyz''.
> >>> >Some are still blank in towcester though because i orignally left
> >>> >residental
> >>> >ones blank, but i will change them as soon as I'm clear on what this
> >>> >problem
> >>> >is.
> >>> >
> >>> >I only use JOSM.  I haven't used the online editor for about 5 months
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> A way is a group of connected segments.  Rather than adding a tag to
> >each
> >>> segment in turn, you can make a group of segments into a way and then
> >add
> >>> the tags just once to the way.  Each road, or section of road if it is
> >>> very
> >>> long, should be a way.
> >>>
> >>> In JOSM ways are coloured blue.  Segments are coloured green.  Type W
> to
> >>> select the way making tool and then click on each segment in turn that
> >>> you
> >>> want to group together into a way.
> >>>
> >>> Etienne
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ben
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >From: Etienne <80n80n at gmail.com>
> >>> >To: "Ben Robbins" <ben_robbins_ at hotmail.com>
> >>> >CC: talk at openstreetmap.org
> >>> >Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Problems with Osmarender
> >>> >Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:06:00 +0100
> >>> >
> >>> >Ben
> >>> >I've just had a look at the Towcester area.  It looks like you've
> been
> >>> >very
> >>> >busy - well done!
> >>> >
> >>> >The new version of Osmarender does not render segments any
> more.  This
> >>> >is
> >>> >to
> >>> >encourage people to tag their roads as ways.  This is the main reason
> >>> >why
> >>> >you are not getting anything out of Osmarender - all you have is
> >>> segments,
> >>> >no ways.
> >>> >
> >>> >The other problem, which you would have had, even with the previous
> >>> >version
> >>> >of Osmarender, is that quite a few of your segments do not have a
> >>> >highway
> >>> >tag.
> >>> >
> >>> >Make each of your streets into a way and as a very minimum add a
> >highway
> >>> >and
> >>> >name tag to each one.  Then you'll find that Osmarender will start to
> >>> give
> >>> >you some nice results.
> >>> >
> >>> >BTW you might find that this would be a good time to start using JOSM
> >>> >for
> >>> >editing, it is a lot quicker than the applet (and anyway the applet
> >>> >isn't
> >>> >working tonight because the tile server is down).
> >>> >
> >>> >Etienne
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >On 9/24/06, Ben Robbins <ben_robbins_ at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >I seem to be having a problem rendering everything in osmarender.
> >I'm
> >>> >not
> >>> > >saying this is because of the new things, cause it was doing this
> >>> before.
> >>> > >It must be something to do with what I'm doing.  This image should
> be
> >>> > >dencely filled with all different road types, footways, tracks
> >>> > >etcetc.  The
> >>> > >osm file was 5 meg, and there isnt 5 meg of data here.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g226/ben_robbins_/osmarender.png
> >>> > >
> >>> > >Does anyone know what I'm doing so wrong?
> >>> > >
> >>> > >If you need to check out the area/taggin etc, search in OSM for
> >>> > >'towcester'.
> >>> > >   Next to none of that town renders for me also.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >Thanks
> >>> > >
> >>> > >Ben
> >>> > >
> >>> > >p.s.  The OSM and CC images seem to appear to one side of the map
> >>> square,
> >>> > >wich would mean cutting them out and placeing them on the map, to
> >>> enshore
> >>> > >these images still apear on renders.  Could they not just sit
> inside
> >>> the
> >>> > >render square?
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >_______________________________________________
> >>> > >talk mailing list
> >>> > >talk at openstreetmap.org
> >>> > >http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >>> > >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >_______________________________________________
> >>> >talk mailing list
> >>> >talk at openstreetmap.org
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> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
>
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