[OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 32, Issue 90

[lewispusey]

Meta Carta is looking very good for my uses, thanks
Lewis
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <talk-request at openstreetmap.org>
To: <talk at openstreetmap.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 6:16 PM
Subject: talk Digest, Vol 32, Issue 90


> Send talk mailing list submissions to
> talk at openstreetmap.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> talk-request at openstreetmap.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> talk-owner at openstreetmap.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: talk Digest, Vol 32, Issue 88 (lewispusey)
>   2. Re: Tiles at home tile processing time stats? (Robert Hart)
>   3. Refresh again (lewispusey)
>   4. Few changes to png2tileinfo script (was: Re: too much blue)
>      (cagri coltekin)
>   5. JOSM incomplete ways debuggung (was: Unordered segments)
>      (Frederik Ramm)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 14:38:37 -0400
> From: "lewispusey" <lewispusey at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 32, Issue 88
> To: <talk at openstreetmap.org>
> Message-ID: <000701c789c4$7c5f3c80$d583e904 at lewisb1911ad6e>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Thansk for the replies, I've requested the rerendering. the area was
> 43.62 -72.14 or thereabouts; I'll ledt you know if it's not successfull.
> Finally found the tiles at home server which was very enlightening and good
> work.
> Lewis
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <talk-request at openstreetmap.org>
> To: <talk at openstreetmap.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 4:55 PM
> Subject: talk Digest, Vol 32, Issue 88
>
>
>> Send talk mailing list submissions to
>> talk at openstreetmap.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> talk-request at openstreetmap.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> talk-owner at openstreetmap.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re: historic planet files (Robert T Wyatt)
>>   2. Re: Updating map display server (Christopher Schmidt)
>>   3. Re: seeing my changes (lewispusey)
>>   4. win32 binaries for mapnik (Artem Pavlenko)
>>   5. Rendering (lewispusey)
>>   6. Re: seeing my changes (David Groom)
>>   7. Re: seeing my changes (Frederik Ramm)
>>   8. Re: [OSM-dev] win32 binaries for mapnik (Andy Robinson)
>>   9. Re: Unordered segments (Martijn van Oosterhout)
>>  10. Re: Topology (was: OSM the mediocre alternative) (Schuyler Erle)
>>  11. JOSM updates (Frederik Ramm)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:54:06 -0500
>> From: Robert T Wyatt <robert.wyatt at mail.utexas.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] historic planet files
>> To: talk at openstreetmap.org
>> Message-ID: <46320E8E.4080100 at mail.utexas.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Frederik Ramm wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>    does anyone have "historic" planet files available? I would like to
>>> build something that creates an animated gif for a selectable area,
>>> showing how data there progressed over time. For that I need all the old
>>> planet dumps I can get.
>>>
>>> Bye
>>> Frederik
>>
>> That's a cool idea! Let us know when we can see it!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:56:25 -0400
>> From: Christopher Schmidt <crschmidt at metacarta.com>
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Updating map display server
>> To: lewispusey <lewispusey at earthlink.net>
>> Cc: talk at openstreetmap.org
>> Message-ID: <20070427145625.GA785 at metacarta.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2007 at 10:00:13AM -0400, lewispusey wrote:
>>> The area I'm working (43. -72.) hasn't been updated for over a month, I
>>> believe. I was wondering how often this process occurs? It would be
>>> usefull to see what type of effects my chnges have had and what else
>>> needs fixing.
>>
>> There's
>> http://labs.metacarta.com/osm/?lat=5381027.46673&lon=-8051754.67814&zoom=11&layers=B00
>> , which is up to date as of the last planet, and renders on the fly.
>> (But that's only mapnik, not osmarender/t at h style.)
>>
>> Regards,
>> -- 
>> Christopher Schmidt
>> MetaCarta
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:15:07 -0400
>> From: "lewispusey" <lewispusey at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] seeing my changes
>> To: <talk at openstreetmap.org>
>> Message-ID: <000c01c788de$d7fc1e50$3d86e904 at lewisb1911ad6e>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Well none of my changes over six weeks are visible in either layer for
>> that same period. One was briefly visible for an few minutes yesterday. I
>> doubt this is on my end.
>> Thanks.
>> Lewis
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070427/2cf1480b/attachment-0001.htm
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:18:02 +0100
>> From: Artem Pavlenko <artem at mapnik.org>
>> Subject: [OSM-talk] win32 binaries for mapnik
>> To: OSM org <talk at openstreetmap.org>, dev <dev at openstreetmap.org>
>> Message-ID: <6AD5CF32-7183-468F-A196-2733FE41D973 at mapnik.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Just in case someone interested :
>>
>> http://mapnik.org/news/2007/apr/27/win32_binaries/
>>
>> Artem Pavlenko
>> http://mapnik.org
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070427/1d085fef/attachment-0001.htm
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:21:52 -0400
>> From: "lewispusey" <lewispusey at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: [OSM-talk] Rendering
>> To: <talk at openstreetmap.org>
>> Message-ID: <000601c788df$da2104b0$3d86e904 at lewisb1911ad6e>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> OK, checked the article more fully.
>> Sorry.
>> Lewis
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070427/c9cd55a2/attachment-0001.htm
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:29:10 +0100
>> From: "David Groom" <reviews at pacific-rim.net>
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] seeing my changes
>> To: <talk at openstreetmap.org>
>> Message-ID: <018a01c788e0$cdd18260$6475a8c0 at xp1>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Lewis
>>
>> Whereabouts  are you editing?  A URL from www.informationfreeway.org 
>> (see
>> the permalink link at the bottom right of the page) would be useful
>>
>> David
>>
>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>  From: lewispusey
>>  To: talk at openstreetmap.org
>>  Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 4:15 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] seeing my changes
>>
>>
>>  Well none of my changes over six weeks are visible in either layer for
>> that same period. One was briefly visible for an few minutes yesterday. I
>> doubt this is on my end.
>>  Thanks.
>>  Lewis
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  talk mailing list
>>  talk at openstreetmap.org
>>  http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070427/00499dfe/attachment-0001.htm
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:30:29 +0200
>> From: Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] seeing my changes
>> To: lewispusey <lewispusey at earthlink.net>
>> Cc: talk at openstreetmap.org
>> Message-ID: <0FC5927A-B5D3-4930-AD9E-F0E356C371A2 at remote.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>> Well none of my changes over six weeks are visible in either layer
>>> for that same period.
>>
>> I checked the area (-72.9,42.9)-(-73.1,43.1) and there is no data
>> there. Absolutely nothing. Zilch. What exactly have you entered or
>> changed? Can you give a more precise description than "42. -73"?
>>
>> Is this:
>>
>> http://labs.metacarta.com/osm/?
>> lat=5381027.46673&lon=-8051754.67814&zoom=11&layers=B00
>>
>> not your data?
>>
>>> One was briefly visible for an few minutes yesterday. I doubt this
>>> is on my end.
>>
>> It is difficult to debug the situation without knowing what we should
>> be looking for!
>>
>> Bye
>> Frederik
>>
>> -- 
>> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49?00.09' E008?23.33'
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:45:10 +0100
>> From: "Andy Robinson" <Andy_J_Robinson at blueyonder.co.uk>
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] win32 binaries for mapnik
>> To: "'Artem Pavlenko'" <artem at mapnik.org>, "'OSM org'"
>> <talk at openstreetmap.org>, "'dev'" <dev at openstreetmap.org>
>> Message-ID:
>> <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAOKaD4mR3JBOrEpRon92nMgBANp/H2q5kHFIvKMsnZiQaZAAAAABxJAAABAAAAAR478N58X6S5l+VlTW+Y0+AQAAAAA=@blueyonder.co.uk>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>>
>> Artem Pavlenko wrote:
>>>Sent: 27 April 2007 4:18 PM
>>>To: OSM org; dev
>>>Subject: [OSM-dev] win32 binaries for mapnik
>>>
>>>Just in case someone interested :
>>>
>>>http://mapnik.org/news/2007/apr/27/win32_binaries/
>>>
>>
>> Nice one. I'll certainly give it a go next week when I get some time.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> Andy Robinson
>> Andy_J_Robinson at blueyonder.co.uk
>>
>>
>>>Artem Pavlenko
>>>http://mapnik.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:27:58 +0200
>> From: "Martijn van Oosterhout" <kleptog at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Unordered segments
>> To: " Dirk-L?der Kreie " <osm-list at deelkar.net>
>> Cc: talk at openstreetmap.org
>> Message-ID:
>> <2fc2c5f10704271027g12bdb3b5k73dc1406db4a7962 at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> On 4/27/07, Dirk-L?der Kreie <osm-list at deelkar.net> wrote:
>>> In my opinion it's not the incomplete flag, but that JOSM cannot somehow
>>> cope with ways that have been downloaded in several steps. Somehow it
>>> just patches the new stuff on, instead of rebuilding the way from the
>>> data now available.
>>
>> The thing is, I've looked at the code and the problem that's occuring
>> simply Shouldn't Happen (tm). The problem is basically that somehow
>> multiple nodes with the same ID appear and some get attached to the
>> right object and some don't.
>>
>> I still don't understand the download merging process enough yet to
>> really look into it, but I'm thinking of piling in the debug info and
>> try to work out where it's going wrong...
>>
>> Have a nice day,
>> -- 
>> Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog at gmail.com> http://svana.org/kleptog/
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:13:36 -0700
>> From: Schuyler Erle <schuyler at nocat.net>
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Topology (was: OSM the mediocre alternative)
>> To: Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>
>> Cc: talk at openstreetmap.org, Christopher Schmidt
>> <crschmidt at metacarta.com>
>> Message-ID: <20070427201336.GH2612 at vishnu.tridity.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> * On 27-Apr-2007 at  2:28AM PDT, Frederik Ramm said:
>>>
>>> >Do you have any examples that don't involve a difference in altitude
>>> >or z-index? I can't think of one. :-/
>>>
>>> But thinking this further, you end up at the very  same point I
>>> postulated, that you cannot simply assume that two  things meeting
>>> somewhere in lat/lon do actually meet logically - in  my description
>>> you would have to explicitly select the object you are  dealing
>>> with, and in a layered world you would have to select the  layer.
>>
>> I have thought very hard about this and I have to agree. The only
>> thing that OSM seems to concretely need topology for is modelling
>> connectivity of transport networks.
>>
>> Topology introduces enormous complexity in spatial processing, and
>> will slow down storage and querying in a spatial database by at least
>> an order of magnitude, even with appropriate caching. With that in
>> mind, I wonder if it wouldn't make more sense to store feature
>> geometries as simple geometries, but continue to represent transport
>> network intersections as separate objects (as OSM currently does).
>> This approach might make it possible or even easy to model attributes
>> of the intersection, such as turn restrictions and the like.
>>
>> SDE
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 22:55:02 +0200
>> From: Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>
>> Subject: [OSM-talk] JOSM updates
>> To: Talk Openstreetmap <talk at openstreetmap.org>
>> Message-ID: <46326326.6040005 at remote.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>    I have commited a few changes to JOSM in the past few days, most
>> notably a complete rewrite of the "Reorder Way" command (by Ed
>> <eai at opencoding.net>) that will also change the direction of segments if
>> that helps creating a continuous way. The new command also refrains from
>> creating a change action if nothing was changed, so you can now just
>> "select all" and then "reorder ways", and it will only upload ways that
>> have changed.
>>
>> Details here:
>>
>> http://josm.eigenheimstrasse.de/wiki/ChangeLog
>>
>> The changes will be available in josm-latest.jar tomorrow morning (it
>> rebuilds nightly.)
>>
>> Bye
>> Frederik
>>
>> -- 
>> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49?00.09' E008?23.33'
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>>
>> End of talk Digest, Vol 32, Issue 88
>> ************************************
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 21:54:06 +0100
> From: "Robert Hart" <bathterror at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Tiles at home tile processing time stats?
> To: "Ray Booysen" <raybooysen at rjb.za.net>
> Cc: talk at openstreetmap.org
> Message-ID:
> <427adff80704281354i79c47293l2ec6b281fd4ab381 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On 28/04/07, Ray Booysen <raybooysen at rjb.za.net> wrote:
>>
>> On that note, can you have multiple T at H clients running out of the same
>> directory?  Or do you need seperate directories for each client?
>>
>
> It does seem to mostly work, although some times it can do odd things,
> especially if both clients try to run upload.pl at the same time. I think
> all the errors are harmless though.
>
> Rob
>
> -- 
> Robert Hart
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070428/32442984/attachment-0001.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 17:10:49 -0400
> From: "lewispusey" <lewispusey at earthlink.net>
> Subject: [OSM-talk] Refresh again
> To: <talk at openstreetmap.org>
> Message-ID: <000801c789d9$b35a0c00$d583e904 at lewisb1911ad6e>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Do I need to request a fresresh of each individual layer?
> Lewis
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070428/88292f85/attachment-0001.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 00:04:42 +0200
> From: cagri coltekin <cagri at xs4all.nl>
> Subject: [OSM-talk] Few changes to png2tileinfo script (was: Re: too
> much blue)
> To: talk at openstreetmap.org
> Message-ID: <20070428220442.GA22054 at xs4all.nl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2007 at 02:19:13PM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>> 1. check out the oceantiles_12.png file
>> 2. change the color of the Turku tiles from blue to green (or white
>> if you suspect they include coastline but that's not too important)
>> 3. run the perl script that generates the data file
>> 4. check in the new data file and the changed png file
>>
>> I'm happy to do 3./4. for you if you do not yet have an SVN account.
>> I can also do 1./2. but I prefer it when people familiar with an area
>> do that.
>
> While working on a mostly incorrect long coastline, I found it
> easier to change the png2tileinfo script to allow changing both
> .dat and .png files with the values provided in the command line.
> It works faster, it does not require an image editor, and may
> also help resolving trouble trouble with updating the png file in
> svn (merging two binary files from two different people who do
> not have svn accounts would be rather difficult).
>
> The changed version of the scrip (patch was almost the same size)
> is attached. It was made to save time, so I did not spend time to
> beautify it, but so far it worked for me it may also be of
> interest to others.
>
> Quick documentation: Running the script with arguments 'check x y'
> gives the current status of the tile x,y in both oceantiles_12.png
> and oceantiles_12.dat. Running it 'set x y (land|sea|coast)'
> sets the given value on both files. Both files need to be in
> the same directory. Running the script without these arguments
> still does the same thing.
>
> cheers,
> -- 
> cagri
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: png2tileinfo.pl
> Type: text/x-perl
> Size: 3986 bytes
> Desc: not available
> Url : 
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20070429/c5cc75d8/attachment-0001.pl
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 00:16:24 +0200
> From: Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>
> Subject: [OSM-talk] JOSM incomplete ways debuggung (was: Unordered
> segments)
> To: Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog at gmail.com>
> Cc: talk at openstreetmap.org
> Message-ID: <4633C7B8.2050005 at remote.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi,
>
> Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
>>> In my opinion it's not the incomplete flag, but that JOSM cannot somehow
>>> cope with ways that have been downloaded in several steps. Somehow it
>>> just patches the new stuff on, instead of rebuilding the way from the
>>> data now available.
>>
>> The thing is, I've looked at the code and the problem that's occuring
>> simply Shouldn't Happen (tm). The problem is basically that somehow
>> multiple nodes with the same ID appear and some get attached to the
>> right object and some don't.
>>
>> I still don't understand the download merging process enough yet to
>> really look into it, but I'm thinking of piling in the debug info and
>> try to work out where it's going wrong...
>
> I have followed the merging process in great detail and must agree with
> Martijn - there isn't an obvious mistake at least. If a way is
> downloaded which contains segments that are not present, "placeholder"
> objects (incomplete=1) are created; if new data arrives in later
> downloads, newly arrived segments with the same id as stored incomplete
> segments will overwrite the existing segment (more specifically, a
> "cloneFrom" method is called on the existing segment that copies all the
> new data into the old segment, unsetting the "incomplete" flag in the
> process).
>
> It all *looks* right; the only thing I can think of is that somehow one
> of the incomplete segments remains, or is duplicated or so.
>
> I've been trying to set up a very simple example:
>
> lochewe% cat i1.osm
> <osm version="0.3">
> <node id="1" lat="1" lon="1" />
> <node id="2" lat="2" lon="2" />
> <segment id="11" from="1" to="2" />
> <way id="21">
> <seg id="11" />
> <seg id="12" />
> </way>
> </osm>
>
> lochewe% cat i2.osm
> <osm version="0.3">
> <node id="3" lat="3" lon="3" />
> <segment id="12" from="2" to="3" />
> </osm>
>
> First file contains an incomplete way, second file contains the missing
> segment. But with this example, loading file 1 and then file 2 will make
> the way complete, exactly as it should.
>
> Can anyone provide an example where this doesn't work and where you have
> to apply the "save the whole thing as .osm, then load it again"
> workaround to actually get a complete way? - Ideally in the form of two
> files, but two bounding boxes would also be perfect as long as it is
> repeatable...
>
> It has happened to me a thousand times but now that I try to provoke it
> and write down (or save) the exact data, I can't seem to reproduce it.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> -- 
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49?00.09' E008?23.33'
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>
> End of talk Digest, Vol 32, Issue 90
> ************************************