imi at eigenheimstrasse.de
Fri Jul 6 13:52:55 BST 2007
Just for the records:
I agree with all of Federick's statements. I hope the London guys will
remove the ads soon.
And I want to rerequest the whole database information from Steve.
It might be necessary to fork the project, if it continues in a
direction some of the user base cannot identify themself with.
Frederik Ramm wrotes:
>> Commercial services very clearly add value to maps used by car
>> drivers: A road atlas without ferry links, toll bridges, motorway
>> service stations, petrol stations isn't as valuable (to drivers) as
>> one with this information.
> Yes, and one that only has "Shell" petrol stations because only
> "Shell" forked out money is not really information any longer.
> Yes, I want information about commercial entities on the map. But
> either I select them myself, or the map provider selects based on
> information value ("all petrol stations", "all petrol stations along
> motorways", whatever) - but not based on who pays. This distorts the
> information and reduces the value.
>> If BP offered to mark every petrol station in the world on OSM
>> would that be a problem?
> We would probably import their data and strive to add all other
> petrol stations as well.
>> If HSBC offered to mark everyone of their ATMs? Sounds like a
>> useful idea - but how about people who bank with Fortis or BBVA?
>> Are they being disadvantaged?
> They/we can add the ATMs.
>> If McDonalds offered to mark every one of their restaurants? NO!!!
> They could do it today. The problems start when they offer us money
> to force these "markings" down the throat of our users - this is
> something that we will not do.
>> So let's agree commercial information needs to integrate with maps
>> but not be "in the map" - Layers of services make total sense -
>> want hotels? show hotels. Want to see restaurants? show restaurants.
> Yes, and handle that information the Wiki way: If someone wants to
> add a hotel, then log in, use the editor, and tag the hotel. NOT "go
> to mappam, set up a campaign, fork out money".
>> If, having added every petrol station, BP wanted to add information
>> about opening hours... another useful idea... and the price of petrol?
> Sure. If an unhappy user then wants to add information about the
> unfriendly clerk... another useful idea... but something that BP will
> probably not want to pay for. So it has to be made clear: Dear BP,
> yes we'd like to have your stations in our data base, but you must
> understand taht this is a Wiki map, and all your competitors have the
> same options, and if you give us the data, you lose control of it. It
> is not in the hands of your marketing people any more. Agree with
> that, or go away.
>> This is the commercial reality of the world we are mapping.
> No problem with that. Problems only start when money changes hands in
> order to make us show things to people that they don't want to see
> (mappam ads cannot be disabled anymore...), or when we don't show
> information about company A because we're exclusively featuring its
> competitor company B.
>> It seems to me that what Mappam are doing on OSM is testing their
>> technology to see how it can add value to users
> The technology to add value - all kinds of value that you mentioned -
> is already there. Having amenity layers could be interesting, but
> mappam isn't providing that.
>> It is early days and clearly it needs refining. But if you want to
>> buy a house in the UK Mappam's advert for Nestoria does add value
>> to the map.
> A very weak argument. The same is being put by spammers all over the
> Usenet: But if someone is looking for Penis enlargement pills, then
> this email adds value for him!
>> As a group we should be helping Mappam get it right
> Why should we? We could also help someone else. Why do we have an
> obligation vis a vis one of hundreds of thousands of Web 2.0 startups
> in the world?
More information about the talk