[OSM-talk] can the Northern Cyprus editor contact me please?

[Mikel Maron]

Hi David

Thank you for your reply.

First, please please stop editing while this is under dispute. I've seen that all data has been deleted, and simply reinserted in whole. Removing the edit history like this is entirely unacceptable. Please don't worry what anyone else is doing -- we'll resolve this finally soon.

So I think there's two guidelines. OSM should accurately represent all legitimate points of view. While at the same time, fairly and without provocation.


There are a few remaining issues. Let's work through these.

First is_in. I hope you understand that the is_in tag is, like the name tag, under dispute. The TRNC is not recognized internationally, though of course it has de facto governance over the region. So to avoid further confrontation over the issue, I suggest is_in use the same A/B scheme as name, or only use the the localized is_in:el and is_in:tr.

The English names. My suggestion here is to just leave them out. These are disputed as well and avoid further discussion. And as an English speaker, I can say that in this case the en tags add little value. 


The one I'm not sure about is Turkish/Greek vs Greek/Turkish. There are rationales for both. This is getting picky, certainly. But I understand how there could be some competition here.
So if you agree to what I've outlined above, I'll continue discussion with the other editor to see where we can get.

Mikel

----- Original Message ----
From: David Janda <dj at dotcomdave.com>
To: talk at openstreetmap.org
Cc: Mikel Maron <mikel_maron at yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 7:38:35 AM
Subject: RE: [OSM-talk] can the Northern Cyprus editor contact me please?


 
Hello Mikel and list

I did reply to your original email to me, but obviously something did
 not
work, so here goes again.

I did, as agreed use name A/B as you suggested (as well as other tags),
where A is the Turkish name and B the Greek. This lasted a few hours as
 they
were overwritten to B/A and the remainder of the tags deleted and
 altered.
My rational for using Turkish / Greek in that order is that the Turkish
names are, and have been in use for the past 30 years. Whereas the
 Greek
ones are not used here in the north at all. My data set for each place
 name
is:

k='is_in:en' v='Turkish Republic Of Northern Cyprus'
k='name:en' v='Ozankoy'
k='name' v='Ozanköy'
k='name:tr' v='Ozanköy'
k='is_in' v='Kuzy Kıbrıs Türk Cumhuriyeti'
k='place' v='village'
k='is_in:el' v='Cyprus'
k='old_name' v='Kazaphani'
k='name:el' v='Kazaphani'

Before I continue, I should explain my rational here. I believe that
 OSM
should present a snapshot of the state of play at the time a mapper
 maps an
area. Period. Politics to one side and all of that. After all, OSM is
 used
as a navigational aid. Of course, the Greeks want to use the Greek
 names and
cite that the names are not recognised, which in fact is NOT the truth.
 The
state of Northern Cyprus is not recognised, but there is nothing I have
 seen
that states that the names are not. But, back to their point and here I
refer to a technical document someone on the list quoted which said
 that in
cases such as this technology should be used to solve the problem -
 hence my
data set, which as you can see provides names in Turkish, English, the
 Greek
name of the village as well as historical reference with old_name
 having the
Greek name. As far as I can see it's now down to the client software!

http://unstats.un.org/unsd/geoinfo/9th-UNCSGN-Docs/E-CONF-98-30-Add1.pdf

I do not believe that name: should be used as a historical (we have
old_name) or political tag at all, but if it makes someone happy then I
 will
use A / B where A is the Turkish name. Is that acceptable?

I agree that the database cannot and should not be used to carry out a
disagreement.

Anyway, just to put another point across here, I observe, with great
interest that none of the place names in the Republic of Cyprus have
 the
Turkish names in any of their tags.

David Janda