[OSM-talk] namespaces and copyright

[elvin ibbotson]

It seems my little rant about what I perceive as an unnecessarily  
precious approach to copyright issues ruffled a few feathers. I think  
everyone's plumage is spruce again now, so I just want to respond to  
some of the helpful guidance received.

> You may yet have to come across a streetname deliberately spelled
> wrongly or in fact any of the other possible easter eggs introduced by
> commercial mapmakers just to protect database rights.
>
> Using street signs and doing general surveing on the ground is the  
> only
> safe option. --- Dirk-Lüder "Deelkar" Kreie


Correct! I have never actually seen one, but I'm sure they exist.  
However, I can make my own spelling mistakes without their help. I  
hope people didn't assume I'm doing all my mapping from the A-Z. I do  
actually go out there collecting tracks with my GPS,  photographing  
things, naming waypoints and even remembering the odd street name.

> Further discussion on this topic is probably best relegated to the
> legal-talk list:
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
>
>> If not, I  would like to see them sue.
>>
>
> This statement is exactly the *opposite* of what the OSM Foundation
> probably feels. Lawsuits cost money. OSM doesn't have the kind of
> resources that allow it to consider defending a suit a reasonable path
> at this time, and thus, it takes the 'moral high ground' by avoiding
> all the issues involved and playing it completely safe, as is the best
> position for a project of this nature to take. --- Christopher Schmidt

> also...

> I think this is generally the point: most people would prefer they
> /didn't/ sue. Even if their case didn't really have a leg to stand on,
> you still end up having to defend it which is more hassle than it's
> worth if you can simply avoid the situation in the first place. The
> same goes for taking street names or climbing route information from
> sources which claim copyright.
>
> As for whether copying the names from maps is legal, well there's
> plenty of opinion on this from lawyers and non-lawyers alike. Database
> right tends to come into it too. I get the feeling YMMV. OSM policy
> has always been to keep to the safe side of the argument and only
> allow sources which are guaranteed to be permitted.
> Anyway, follow ups to the legal-talk list please. --- Dave Stubbs


I tried subscribing to the legal list but something seems to be  
broken, so I'm back here polluting the talk list - sorry!

Here ("I  would like to see them sue") I was using what I thought was  
a widely-used and equally widely-understood device, colloquially  
known as 'irony' (though I'm sure a grammarian would correct that). I  
did not actually mean it literally. I like OSM and I really hope it  
doesn't get sued (and here I'm not being ironic).

I'm all for staying on the right side of the law even if it means I  
might not go to heaven when I die. If anyone ever
accuses me of copying a street name from a book or a map I will deny  
ever having set eyes on said book or map or having asked anyone who  
might have seen it. There is a danger I might occasionally have to  
lie, but it's better than getting sued, eh?. To be really safe, I'm  
going to start looking carefully at the street signs for copyright  
notices. (sort of irony again).

> On the other hand, on a rock face there are no signs - things can  
> become much more subjective.  Climbing (difficulty) grades, for  
> example, are estimates - there is no hard fast rule about what  
> makes a route a specific grade.  A bunch of people climb it and  
> make a guestimate on how hard they think it is. --- Steve Hill

My original post was prompted by one about climbing route names from  
Chris Hill. You guys take your surnames too seriously.
It sounds like this climbing malarky is as anarchic as OSM. You  
should have committees to grade climbs and approve route names and  
climbing police to ensure no-one ever uses a copyrighted route name  
without proper attribution.

elvin ibbotson

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