[OSM-talk] map icons - OSM Mapnik

[sergio sevillano]

-------- Mensaje original --------
Asunto: 	Re: OSM map icons help
Fecha: 	Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:18:12 +0200
De: 	sergio sevillano <sergio at tumbao.ws>
Para: 	Ulf Lamping <ulf.lamping at web.de>
CC: 	Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>
Referencias: 
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hi Ulf



Ulf Lamping escribió:
> Frederik Ramm schrieb:
>> Hi Sergio,
>>
>>> just hapens that i´ve been working on a set of icons specifically 
>>> intended for OSM, basically POIs.
>>> that i´ll be happy to release them as public domain if the community 
>>> acepts them.
>>
>> That sounds good!
>
> ACK :-)
>
>>
>>> before i start i need some questions to be solved:
>>> · what .svg format is used (2.0 1.0 tinny....)
>>
>> I have no idea.
>
> Basically what inkscape uses. The files don't seem to indicate any svg 
> format, and I'm really not an expert on this ...
>
ok

>>
>> We use symbols in - at least - three different places. We have two 
>> map renderers - Osmarender and Mapnik - that use symbols, and we have 
>> an Editor - JOSM - that can display symbols. There are other editors 
>> as well using their own symbols, plus myriad map display apps 
>> (GPSDrive, Navit and so on).
>>
>> Of these, only Osmarender uses SVG symbols. Osmarender uses SVG 
>> version 1.1. JOSM only works with bitmap images. Mapnik currently 
>> only works with bitmap images but they are working on SVG support I 
>> think.
>>
>>> · which is the color palette (or constraints of display so i can 
>>> find the best color palette)
>>
>> This is hard do answer in a general fashion. Both Mapnik and 
>> Osmarender generate map tiles for the web. I guess that as long as 
>> your symbols don't use too many colours, anything goes. But currently 
>> due to the mix of styles, the symbols probably together use 100 
>> colors or so, which leaves too little for the maps.
>>
>>>     i believe most of the icons come from 
>>> http://www.gpsdrive.de/development/map-icons/overview.en.shtml
>>>     is their color and sizes the ones OSM wants to use?
>>
>> These icons are not generally used in the renderers, but by the 
>> GPSDrive program which uses OSM data.
>
> The size JOSM elemstyle (mappaint) uses is 16*16 pixels max, which is 
> probably a good rule of thumb for other rendering related stuff, but 
> this is only my personal opinion.
>
i have choosen 20x20 px as start point (the hospital is that size) where 
icons are inside a square or a circle. But if they are alone i gess they 
end up 18x18. for me is important to have an agreement on the size, as 
design differs a bit.
We are moving at a very small range and 1 px makes a difference. (to me, 
at least).

that 16x16 is complex to change for JOSM?

> There wasn't any discussion about the number of colors used. To be 
> honest, I don't feel that this is a real problem today (giving todays 
> true color displays) but I may be wrong here.
safeweb palette?

>>
>>> · wich are the categories that are used in order to classify and 
>>> select a color squeme for each. are they this?:
>>>     
>>> http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/share/map-icons/README.icons
>>
>> This also relates to the GPSDrive icons. I believe they have been 
>> proposed as a general-use set of icons for OSM, and may also be used 
>> in the JOSM editor, but not on the map renderers. The icons are 
>> rather colourful and IMHO not very well suited for displaying them on 
>> a map that uses colors to distinguish map features; such icons tend 
>> to be monochrome.
>
> Well, first of all, the current set of icons used in JOSM is colorful 
> and this is mostly my fault :-) My primary goal for the JOSM icons I 
> "painted" was simply to have *any* icons that makes at least a little 
> sense for mappers and are recognizable.
>
> Anyway, I don't know if I agree with Frederik that map icons need to 
> be monochrome ;-)
>
>> · i found this page as the closest 
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Map_Icons
>>     created by Ulfl but basically abandoned since then. are this the 
>> accepted rules?
>
> OpenStreetMap has no body that could accept or reject rules. I don't 
> know if Ulf Lamping is still working on the icon stuff or not. 
> From time to time.
>
> I believe
>> that the goal has been (and still is) to get the renderers to work 
>> with a standard set of icons as well. This not only involves 
>> selecting the icon style but also deciding on which zoom level which 
>> objects will be visible. It is a very complex job and cannot be done 
>> in one go.
>
> Unfortunately (IMHO, but Frederik will probably have a different 
> opinion), every renderer is keeping it's own set of icons, rules, ...
>>
>>> · how can i present the icons i´ve done so far.?
>
> simplest idea might be to have a screenshot with lot's of icons, so 
> people get an idea ...
>
there is one screenshot at 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/User:Sergionaranja

>>
>> If you are willing and able to work with SVG and XML, then you could 
>> install Osmarender on your system and download a well mapped region, 
>> say Munich or London, and render it locally. This will result in an 
>> SVG file showing a map of the area. You can then change the 
>> Osmarender rules file to use your icons and re-render the map. This 
>> would be something people would look at ("look here I have drawn 
>> London with my new symbols"). But you could also just create a new 
>> icon category on Ulf's wiki page and upload them there.
>>
>> Note that, as Ulf has written on the page, typical icon categories 
>> don't always fit OSM and vice versa. For example. a restaurant is 
>> tagged amenity=restaurant and a hotel is tourism=hotel, but in an 
>> icon collection you would usually have the icons for hotel and 
>> restaurant side by side.
>
> To be honest, I'm no longer convinced that "my idea" of using the 
> gpsdrive schema to keep the icons is a pretty good idea at all. I mean 
> the only applications I know using these icon schemas are gpsdrive and 
> JOSM, and this scheme might be the reason why others are not using it 
> at all ...
>
> I have Cc'ed Ulf on this email but you don't have to be shy, just post 
> on the "talk" mailing list about your icons and see what responses you 
> get ;)
>
> ACK
>
> Regards, ULFL
>
>

nice to listen to you ulf.
ok this is it for now.
im running right now to the beach
so ill be out for few days.
and i cant answer till then

bye
sergio