[OSM-talk] National borders in the British Islands

[elvin ibbotson]

On 30 May 2008, at 00:19, Dave Stubbs wrote:

>> This strand of the discussion (below) though echoes the earlier  
>> thread I
>> kicked off (but gave up pursuing because there seemed to be more  
>> prejudice
>> than logic in the discussion) about the idea of numerically-based  
>> properties
>> in the database mapped to human-friendly language in editors and  
>> viewers.
>
> OMG is your brain mush? This whole nonsense is over what admin_level
> (a numerical tagging scheme) maps to. It's the perfect example of why
> numbering the bloomin tags doesn't necessarily actually solve
> anything. It's also the perfect example of how a global numbering
> system is utterly irrelevant given our ability to invent domain and
> ordering specific ones on a whim.
>

Oops! I touched a nerve there :-) I'm no brain surgeon but, from what  
I've seen on telly, most peoples brains are, fundamentally, a bit  
mushy. This fluidity and flexibility is IMHO better than the rigidity  
of an ossified brain. As I understand it the numbers are not the  
problem, it arises from people not knowing which is the right number  
to use (eg. England/Scotland border admin_level 2 or 4?). This is why  
I think numbers are useful in the data but users should not have to  
know what numbers to use. Rather they should be presented with  
choices using words they understand which then put the right numbers  
in the database. As for "our ability to invent domain and
ordering specific ones on a whim" this too would be better translated  
into English as she is spoke.

>
>> Most of that discussion was about highways but similar arguments  
>> seem to
>> apply to boundaries. I think most British mappers would be happier  
>> selecting
>> from a boundary sub-menu of 'National', 'County', 'District',  
>> 'parish', with
>> each choice invisibly mapped back to the appropriate numerical  
>> boundary type
>> than with the clumsy 'boundary=administrative' 'admin_level=4'  
>> approach.
>
> Yes, I'm sure they would rather pick from such a menu. Mapping to the
> relevant boundary and admin_level tags should be trivial as the wiki
> page manages it. I'm sure implementations are welcome.
>

Exellent! We agree, then :-)

elvin (mushbrain) ibbotson
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