[OSM-talk] definition of the main highway-tag

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2009/8/1 Christiaan Welvaart <cjw at daneel.dyndns.org>:
> On Sat, 1 Aug 2009, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> It seems to be an interpretation problem for the phrase 'administrave class'
> then because I clearly argued that who is the maintainer of the road should
> not directly influence the value of the highway tag. What I was trying to
> say is that I'd prefer to tag the importance that the road maintainer sets
> for a road.

OK, still importance it is.

> This *class* can usually be derived from how it was built, the
> maximum speed on the road, etc., not from how many cars actually drive on it
> or even its position in the grid. Road maintainers also take other things
> into account like how many houses are near the road,

but that's more or less another way of estimating how many cars
actually drive on it

> how much pollution and
> noise will be generated by traffic on the road, etc.

and that's also most dependant on how many cars actually drive on it
(besides speed and partially surface)

> So in the context of Germany I say take 'Autobahn' and 'Kraftfahrstrasse' as
> a classes for the highway tag (not 'Bundesstrasse' and 'Landesstrasse').
> These terms are defined in law, so it is not something OSM invented or a
> vague importance of the road.

"Bundesstraße" is of course also defined in law:
http://bundesrecht.juris.de/fstrg/BJNR009030953.html
as is "Landesstraße" http://rlp.juris.de/rlp/gesamt/StrG_RP.htm
and most probably also "Kreisstraße" and others (use google if you
don't believe me).

But we already agreed a long time ago in Germany not to use these
administrative classification to derive the OSM highway-class for good
reasons already reported here.


>>> The problem with 'importance' is that it is too vague and it is the task
>>> of the road maintainer to determine/define a road's function. Also, if there
>>> is a mismatch between a road's classification and its 'importance',
>>> we should tag the classification.

>> what do you mean by classification? Administrative, physical or
>> importance? There is clearly all the three of them, and of course I
>> want to tag the administrative classification (inside ref-tag) but not
>> as the parameter for the highway-class.
>
> I mean how the road maintainer designates the road.

it is not the road maintainer to designate the road but the
designation sets the road maintainer. That's the case at least in
Germany and Italy (but most probably also in other countries).

> Well I disagree. IMHO we should tag what is 'on the ground', not invent
> things or try to tag what's in people's minds. If a government body gives a
> road it maintains some importance (or class/type) we should tag it
> accordingly.

yes. We should tag the importance it receives. But that's what this is
about. Class and type put equally aside are not helpful in this
discussion. Classes there are also in law more than just
administrative classes. Maybe you can read German, so have a look at
this:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stra%C3%9Fenkategorie
and this
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stra%C3%9Fenbaurichtlinien
(the latter is a more detailed summary of laws and directives
according to roads.

> Another example is Bicycle streets. These are designated by municipalities
> in .nl (and .de) but they do not have a uniform importance: for cars they
> are e.g. a living street but for bicycles they are part of an important and
> much used route. These roads are classified specially by the road
> maintainer, and this should be reflected in the highway= value. What is the
> conclusion according to your proposal?

I was talking about the main definition for the highway tag. Please
note, that also on the English page there is explicitly written, that
administrative classes are NOT the way to derive the highway-class.
Please have a look. This discussion is about substituting "physical"
(actual state) to "importance". To your case (bikeroads): for these
special cases (also motorway) we still have the particular definition
where the criteria would remain designation in these cases.

> Anyway how do you determine if something is a cycleway, from its importance
> and its position in the grid? That does not work while it would be nice to
> have a uniform definition for the highway key.

no, see above. I think the distinction between the general definition
and the special ones is to be kept. I can't really see a point here.

cheers,
Martin