[OSM-talk] New dimension of vandalism

[Mikel Maron]

Thanks Mike, wise council.

What I think we have here is a disagreement, a deep seated discussion 
which has been taking place over the entire history of the project, and in many forums.

IMO, the wiki should reflect the current collective thinking. If the collective thinking is in disagreement,
then the wiki should show both sides, equally, with _respectful_ disagreement.


Certainly a proposal can be worked out, and discussion can lead towards a practical solution satisfactory to all,
just like we always do it!

Whatever historically the Tag:Highway page has recommended should continue to be the main recommendation,
for the time being. Discussion on changes can take place in the Talk page, and in separate proposals. 
Tag:Highway can give  a general description of the discussion, with a link to other proposals.

How does that sound?

Best
Mikel



----- Original Message ----
From: Mike Harris <mikh43 at googlemail.com>
To: Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>; Lulu-Ann at gmx.de
Cc: talk at openstreetmap.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 11:16:56 AM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] New dimension of vandalism

There seem to be three issues here:

1. Vandalism - perhaps we'd have a better discussion without the emotive
language.

2. Wiki vs mailing list: I use both - but the mailing list appears
automatically in my in-tray every day and gets read whenever I have time to
log on; the wiki seems to need me to watch a particular page and, simple
person that I am, I haven't found out how to get changes notified to me -
probably missed a 'watch this page' link or something! Whichever one
prefers, common courtesy perhaps dictates that before making major changes
to the wiki a check is also made with the mailing list community -
overlapping but not identical.

3. Highway tag: I won't reopen the very long and intense discussion we've
had in the last 2-3 weeks on the mailing list (during which many of us
probably concluded that the subject was so complex and important that it
would be a breach of netiquette to make major edits to the wiki until the
discussion had gelled a bit more. The suggestion of a working group was a
good one that got some support - and then faded away into cyberspace - pity.
For the present I will stick to the concept that highway= is essentially a
tag to describe the physical characteristics of the way (and remember it
applies to ways other than roads - where it is perhaps very important for
other reasons than routing). There are other tags (probably too many of
them!) to describe usability, access rights, legal standing etc.

... and finally - a tag that is largely subjective is likely to lead to more
problems and conflict than one that is largely objective - and this suggests
we should avoid words (in any language) that are largely subjective
(especially when translated).

IMHO (and remember that 'humble' can be a descriptor of the quality of the
opinion - like 'humble abode' - as much as the attitude of the writer! - so
there's no need to take this all too seriously (;>)) ... let's stay civil
and objective!

Mike Harris


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Frederic Ramm [mailto:frederik at remote.org] 
> Sent: 26 August 2009 14:10
> To: Lulu-Ann at gmx.de
> Cc: talk at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] New dimension of vandalism
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Lulu-Ann at gmx.de wrote:
> > Dieter and any other supporter of the concept is free to start a 
> > proposal to change the most important tag of all. But 
> please stay in 
> > the common conventions for such an important change and give *all* 
> > users the chance to vote, and do not make changes on the 
> wiki because 
> > of an agreement of few persons on the mailing list(s).
> 
> I think that a discussion on the mailing list reaches more 
> people than a proposal on the Wiki, so I don't see why the 
> latter should be preferred ;-)
> 
> Granted: talk-de is not the place to discuss stuff that is 
> internationally relevant, even if the .de community makes > 
> 40% of all edits. But if ever people on talk should agree on 
> something I don't think it is required to make a Wiki 
> proposal as well.
> 
> Bye
> Frederik
> 
> 
> 
> 


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