[OSM-talk] Revert requests in general

[Kai Krueger]

Frederik Ramm wrote:
> 
> You're trying to remove two "barriers" at the same time, both quite 
> unrelated:
> 
> 1. The barrier of users having to sign up to OSM;
> 2. The barrier of a (supposedly) complicated editing process.
> 
No, they are not really unrelated. If 1 is prerequisite of 2 (which it is)
and 1 is the larger of the two "barriers" (which imho for the given target
audience it is), then the two are very much related and offering 2 without 1
make much less sense 


Frederik Ramm wrote:
> 
> On the other hand, doing "1" in the above, is relatively cheap; we could 
> do that ourselves at any time by, say, allowing users to log in to OSM 
> with any OpenID credentials (just like we do on help.openstreetmap.org). 
>   I guess we might even do that one day if we get the messaging and 
> license stuff sorted out but we're not ready for that.
> 
Well, imho having an OpenID password would be very useful
(http://git.openstreetmap.org/?p=rails.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/openID
hint hint...), but the current implementation actually solves a slightly
different issue and not the signup one, precisely because "1" is not cheap
in terms of social and legal implications! The above OpenID implementation
would still require you to sign-up, provide an email and agree to the CT,
because OSM  needs a contact, just that on top of all that you don't also
have to come up and remember yet another username and password.

The NearMap case would be very different though. NearMap would be fully
responsible for its user account, thus from OSMs point of view all data is
fully accountable for. For example OSM doesn't prevent me e.g from proxying
edits for a colleague of mine who wants to change something but can't be
bothered to sign up. Even more so, OSM doesn't prevent me from doing imports
if I take the full responsibility of the data I add under my account.
Indeed, if I am not mistaken, you have (or at least helped) imported data
your self.

So how is this different from a OSM point of view? If NearMap want to take
responsibility for their users fine, that is their problem. If it turns out
in the future that the NearMap account causes to much troubles and NearMap
isn't living up to its responsibility, OSM can still block the entire
NearMap account. (Blocking one account rather than thousands is much easier
anyway) Again, that is more NearMap's problem then OSM's to deal with a
potential fall out.

So if NearMap is willing to take on this responsibility, and so far all
indications are that they are and are fully aware of what they are getting
into, why would OSM care? In fact it should be very happy that someone is
investing the effort in providing these easy casual options, as OSM can't
cater for these themselves.


Frederik Ramm wrote:
> One signup page, one E-Mail 
> confirmation, and then click "ok" for the OAuth page. How often does the 
> modern Internet user do that every day?
> 
Exactly that is the problem! I have to sign-up to far too many accounts per
day already. Risking new spam on the email, having to think of new Passwords
and usernames, as the "security rules" make passwords incompatible and thus
increase the chance of forgetting them.

Quite often I then just say "Oh sod off! I can't be asked to go through yet
another process of creating a new password and forgetting it again." and
just not contribute. It is not worth going through that hassle of creating a
new password that by the time I will use this site again I will have
forgotten the password anyway. Unless of cause I want to become a regular
contributor, but not for just fixing e.g. a spelling mistake!

So if there are middle men like NearMap who are prepared to put in this
effort to attract these people, then great. OAuth was designed for those
people (site owners) who aren't prepared to act as middle man and therefore
should be cut out as a "Middle man" with respect to passwords too, quite a
different situation.

Kai
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