[OSM-talk] Frederik declares war on data imports...

[Julio Costa Zambelli]

George,

If "The contributor terms contain clauses that permit OSMF to do
whatever they like with the content including change the license" off
course any "non PD" import will not be compatible at all.

We will have to ask the agencies to agree with the Contributor Terms
but if we are changing to a PD license disguised as BY-SA (via the CT)
they probably will not cooperate. Even if the point four of the CT
works as enough attribution (who knows).

As I said most of the agencies just asked us to attribute the source
and we told them the way that we will do it. The ODbL (and for this
matter any BY-SA License) does not seem to pose a problem to that, but
that point three of the CT certainly may provoke a _huge_ mess.

What is the idea of putting that condition there? If some people wants
to migrate to Public Domain (and I have read many of them in this
list), why not ask directly for a PD migration acceptance instead of
asking people to accept this kind of CT as part of a BY-SA license
change?

If this is voted as a package I will obviously have to vote against
the change (I do not want to see 7/8 of the Chilean highways
disappearing from the map in one day, not to say many POIs that we
were about to import right now [hospitals, schools, etc.]).

Regards,

Julio Costa


On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 12:16 PM, 80n <80n80n at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 2:40 PM, Julio Costa Zambelli
> <julio.costa at openstreetmap.cl> wrote:
>>
>> Aun,
>>
>> +1 from Chile.
>>
>> The government imports (some highways, schools, hospitals, boundaries,
>> etc.) are an essential part of what we are doing here, and at least
>> for us, the license change represents no problem.
>>
>> Every time we have negotiated with a government agency we have talked
>> about a BY-SA license and not about (CC) in particular (many times
>> explaining them that we are in a license transition process).
>>
>> Also most of the times those agencies only require from us the
>> attribution (in the complete suburban highway DB import process for
>> example). The most important part of the negotiation for us is to
>> explain them how are we going to attribute them with some tags (most
>> of the times: source=* and/or attribution=*) in every way and node
>> data that they provide to us, instead of a footer note in a slippy map
>> like the one Google Maps/Earth use.
>
> Do those agencies realise that under ODbL Produced Works do not require
> attribution?  It doesn't sound like your imports are compatible at all.
>
> They are also required to agree to the contributor terms.  You will not be
> allowed to agree to them on their behalf.  The contributor terms contain
> clauses that permit OSMF to do whatever they like with the content including
> change the license.
>
> It's possible that your imports will not be compatible with at least some
> parts of the three proposed agreements ODbL, DbCL and CT.
>
> 80n
>
>
>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 4:00 AM, Aun Johnsen <lists at gimnechiske.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 12:58 AM, Erik Johansson <emj at kth.se> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> 2010/8/8 Dirk-Lüder Kreie <osm-list at deelkar.net>:
>> >> > Am 08.08.2010 16:59, schrieb John Smith:
>> >> >> On 9 August 2010 00:58, Erik Johansson <emj at kth.se> wrote:
>> >> >>> Australia 2 people per km^2
>> >> >>> Sweden 21 people per km^2
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Canada is ~3 people per km^2...
>> >> >
>> >> > You seem to forget that the most interesting Data (to most people) is
>> >> > also where the people are.
>> >>
>> >> I formally invite you to come to Sweden, which I find a pretty
>> >> interesting place.
>> >>
>> >> There are really nice views here, if enough European OSM:er spend
>> >> their vacation here we could probably map Sweden in 5 years? A great
>> >> place to start i Härjedalen beautiful mountains and lots of mapping to
>> >> do, even in areas where there are no people within 3 hours of travel.
>> >> So the interesting thing about these places (for most people) is that
>> >> there are few very ppl.
>> >>
>> >> You can put those "blank spots" in Austria/Germany in perspective, and
>> >> get to map some really low density places; e.g. try to figure out the
>> >> name of a thousand lakes, mountains or the footpath you are on, it's
>> >> not like there are signs. :-)
>> >>
>> >> Härjedalen with a few blank spots:
>> >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=62.546&mlon=12.542&zoom=9
>> >>
>> >> Even Stockholm has quite a few of those blankspots.
>> >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=59.32&lon=18.07&zoom=9
>> >>
>> >> So Dirk and Cartinus when are you coming over to map Sweden?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> /Erik who has spent lots of time in blank spots.
>> >
>> > I hear Fredrikk (among others) dislikes imports, and I hear his argument
>> > that it might work discouraging on people to have large areas imported.
>> > But
>> > here in the Brazilian community we see imports as a necessary way to
>> > improve
>> > map coverage, which in turn can increase reqruitment.
>> >
>> > Brazil is a country the size of europe, but still we are only a handful
>> > contributors, some of which (myself included) are not native Brazilians.
>> >
>> > This discussion started with wether or not the proposed change of
>> > license
>> > could go on because of some imported data somewhere was in an
>> > uncompatible
>> > license. I can with this confirm that at least 99% of imported data in
>> > Brazil is compatible with the change of license, and most of that also
>> > is
>> > compatible with the even more extreme (but currently not considered)
>> > Public
>> > Domain license.
>> >
>> > If people from the "overcrowded" European communities, (or anywhere else
>> > for
>> > that matter), want to map blank spots like Erik invites to, than Brazil
>> > must
>> > be the paradise for you. Only a few regions of Brazil have local
>> > contributions, Yahoo coverage is limited to a few metropolitan areas,
>> > and
>> > the majority of imported data is crude, with low node density. Just a
>> > few
>> > places have a high detail level, so even in the mapped areas there are
>> > much
>> > to do. Just browse to Copacobana in Rio de Janeiro, the streets are
>> > there,
>> > but hardly any shops, restaurants, bars, hotels, parking spaces, etc.
>> > Running out of things to map in Hamburg doesn't mean the map is
>> > completed.
>> >
>> > Actually, after I imported the municipal data of Vitoria, the state
>> > capital
>> > of Espirito Santo, Brazil, I have noticed an increase in registrations
>> > of
>> > users in that area. This are people that might fill in the data that I
>> > couldn't import, correct inaccuracies in the import (old data?), and map
>> > the
>> > areas outside the limit of the import. In Brazil, imports helps
>> > reqruiting,
>> > and is encouraging to the people living in the region, but feel free to
>> > contribute with some of your survey data next time you visit Brazil.
>> >
>> > Aun
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > talk at openstreetmap.org
>> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>> >
>> >
>>
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