[OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept

Apollinaris Schoell aschoell at gmail.com
Sun Feb 21 08:55:40 GMT 2010

> openstreetbugs is basically there but has a crappy UI. It needs to be
> 1) click 'feedback' or 'problem'
> 2) enter problem
> 3) click ok

ok and then? who will pick it up and fix it?
look at openstreetbugs and most could be closed right away. the feedback from most people is useless. a comment "footways are missing in this park" doesn't help much if there is no experienced mapper willing to survey.
And someone able to write a detailed and useful description will be able to Potlatch* in the same time

> the extra step of clicking where the problem is should not happen, we should get that from the bbox or center point plus zoom. So with some changes I think we can integrate OSB and expose it front and center to help fix up the bugs.
> I think in an environment where every other map on the planet is trying to hide their bugs, we should expose ours and fix them quickly while showing everyone what they got wrong.
> As for your comments about people entering bugs and feature requests we can't handle... look. I understand it's a case of matching requests to people who can be bothered to do them. And I understand that people here today can't be bothered to fix most of the things that are wrong in OSM because we're all happy to work around them... but it's bonkers to be dismissive about 'granny' because it's all those grannies out there who are going to help us fix this map.

the grannies are useless unless you sit down with them and talk to them finally and do the entry yourself. 

> If I think about all the people who can help today in OSM, I immediately think of my brothers and sister, my parents and so on... and the only way is if we go through a big complicated loop with walking papers. A bug system like the above should be where we're headed. It will make so many more people help us, and we will be able to fix so many more things.

something like walking papers is what non geeks understand because they know paper maps. or to repeat you have to sit down with them
> So as for features and software bugs... I think we should turn up the volume of the people who want things changed. One, we might learn something about what the users actually want (because trac is a poor, poor reflection) and two... look we should be the first people to welcome input on what people think we should do. We can't all hide in our basement and hack on Java any more. We have to help these people who are crying out for it.
> I'll add two more things
> 1) Using "google insight" (bing for it) and many other tools it's very very clear that the german community is by far and away huge. That's wonderful, but we don't have Germans all over Europe and the US - we need these tools out here Frederik to help us fix the map.

without the German's you won't get a better map. back to "footways are missing in this park" it's sitting in openstreetbugs for many months (or years?) openstreetbugs or keepright are the perfect tools for German's with a large community look at US. even a 5+ mio area like the bay area has probably less than 100 active mappers. they can and will do cooler and more rewarding things first.

> 2) We have to be very clear that the openstreetmap.org website is _awful_. Horrendous. A total PITA. We're all here because we're persistent with it. But the wonderful thing is - we don't have to make the tools and site easy to use if we can expose a simple bug system. It's very clear that nobody can convince Richard to actually write something any muggle would really want to use, you can scream at him to finish the mythical Potlatch 2 all you want, but he doesn't give a shit and lives on a boat in bliss. That's his choice, and it's totally fine, but if we all feel that way then we have to deal with the downside that every single day we lose tens of thousands of edits because of that monopoly on bad UI. All I'm suggesting is we sidestep the problem and connect people who can report a map bug but can't be bothered to deal with pain and suffering of potlatch with the people who can deal with it, at least until Richard gets his act together and stops fixing every stupid thing in the old codebase. You have to take a step back here and realise what we're missing out on.
> Yours &c.
> Steve
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