[OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept

Kai Krueger kakrueger at gmail.com
Sun Feb 21 09:15:17 GMT 2010

On 01/-10/-28163 08:59 PM, SteveC wrote:
> On Feb 20, 2010, at 11:20 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:

> openstreetbugs is basically there but has a crappy UI. It needs to be

Fixing openstreetbugs "crappy ui" and integrating it into the main page 
seems like the better way to go in this case rather than replace it with 
a system that is not designed nor good at handling spacial suggestions.

> 1) click 'feedback' or 'problem'
> 2) enter problem
> 3) click ok
> the extra step of clicking where the problem is should not happen, we should get that from the bbox or center point plus zoom. So with some changes I think we can integrate OSB and expose it front and center to help fix up the bugs.

Are you suggesting that it is a bad idea to specify a location of a map 
bug? Ok, so I will zoom into central london and tell you "there is a 
turn restriction missing". How is anyone supposed to help fix this 
without the detailed location information? Even google with their 
"report a problem" link lets you place a marker to highlight where the 
problem actually is. And perhaps the UI of the bug reporting should say 
at the top something like "Hey, you can report a map problem here, no 
problem, but even better would be if you click on the edit button and 
actually fix it your self. But if you feel uncomfortable to do that, 
just report it here and perhaps eventually someone else like you might 
come and fix it"


> I'll add two more things
> 1) Using "google insight" (bing for it) and many other tools it's very very clear that the german community is by far and away huge. That's wonderful, but we don't have Germans all over Europe and the US - we need these tools out here Frederik to help us fix the map.
> 2) We have to be very clear that the openstreetmap.org website is _awful_.Horrendous. A total PITA.

Actually, I am not that clear on why it is all that _awful_. I kind of 
like the design (of the main page). Yes, it has its issues and there are 
a few things I would like to see to improve the usability, that are 
better in your design. (The more prominent search bar, now that we  have 
the technical capabilities to support larger use of search and the 
inclusion of some Quality Assurance tools) But most of those could be 
added incrementally too.

> We're all here because we're persistent with it. But the wonderful thing is - we don't have to make the tools and site easy to use if we can expose a simple bug system.

Yes, a simple bug system can help. In particular in those regions that 
are already "complete", are in "maintanace mode" and have sufficient 
established mappers that are actually looking for things to do. But in 
all other cases, which unfortunately at the moment are probably still 
the majority, just reporting problems won't actually get them fixed.

> It's very clear that nobody can convince Richard to actually write something any muggle would really want to use, you can scream at him to finish the mythical Potlatch 2 all you want, but he doesn't give a shit and lives on a boat in bliss.

I don't think this comment is fair, as Richard is doing a wonderful job, 
especially as a "one man volunteer". But I will leave it at that.

That's his choice, and it's totally fine, but if we all feel that way 
then we have to deal with the downside that every single day we lose 
tens of thousands of edits because of that monopoly on bad UI. All I'm 
suggesting is we sidestep the problem and connect people who can report 
a map bug but can't be bothered to deal with pain and suffering of 
potlatch with the people who can deal with it, at least until Richard 
gets his act together and stops fixing every stupid thing in the old 

> You have to take a step back here and realise what we're missing out on.

I think what we are (partly) missing out on here is people technically 
capable on actually implementing any of those suggestions and also some 
people who are technically skilled enough to realize what is feasible 
for volunteers to achieve and what not and are willing to work closely 
with the implementers to get the UI user friendly. People just throwing 
ideas over the wall, can occasionally be useful, but I don't think that 
is our main problem. Although the general attitude of Open source 
programmers of "Oh the code is that way, so go and fix it your self" is 
not always helpful either.


> Yours&c.
> Steve

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