[OSM-talk] USGS map areas with street names

Tue Jan 26 12:09:18 GMT 2010

Hi there

I am pasting below a comprehensive answer to the questions raised in this
thread by Talbot Brook (Mississipi Sate University) to whom I had forwarded
the whole thread which as you can read clarifies all the points earlier
questioned.

I'd like to hear back from the list about the interest for printing in the
US and shipping to Haiti large quantities of such a field/ on the ground
oriented high quality product for wide dissemination with a specific
attention to reach the poorest of the responders (with no/ limited access to
computers and internet access) and the poorest tout court: the Haitian.

I hope Talbot's email clarifies and look fwd 2 hearing back on the piece
above.

Best.
N

    Nicolas -

    I'm not sure where the confusion is arising, but would like to help
clear it up.  We clearly state on the legend page and each individual map
page that the street data is from OSM as downloaded using GeoFabrik.
Further, as specified, the imagery used is by GeoEye as downloaded from
Google.  USGS has not contributed any data to these products other than
serving as the source for downloading the ASTER DEM which was used to derive
contours in some products.  The date of the data would be the date of the
map - this is pretty standard stuff.  I would strongly suggest that the OSM
folks not digitize and name from these maps as they are the original data
source and where no names are listed for streets is more likely a function
of the label manager in the software we use than the absence of labeling -
too many labels renders the map useless.  We had been using the Minustah
data for points as indicated, but given the thread, am worried that some OSM
point data may have been mixed in by one of my technicians - I will have to
check.

    While the directories being sponsored by USGS may be confusing at first,
they're likely pretty straight forward to a trained map user who knows MGRS
(I hope that didn't sound condescending as it's not meant as such!!!).
These are scaled map products for use in print-and-go and to supplement
GPS.  They are organized by MGRS coordinate - the zone designation, the
100,000-m square ID, the 2-digit easting and the 2-digit northing.  Thus
anyone knowing where they are or wanting to go to specific area can
immediately pick out the right map, or if they like, download the entire
series for use.

    If we've made an error or this is causing too much operational
confusion, please let me know pronto and I'll do what I can to resolve the
issue.  We're trying to recognize that while online map services are great,
they're not very good for those going to the field - portable maps with
coordinate reference systems are a requirement -- we've made every effort to
follow the cartographic and navigational standards that will be used in the
field by military, US SAR assets and similar.

    Talbot Brooks, Director
    Delta State University GIT
    Box 3325
    Cleveland, MS 38733
    USNG (NAD 83): 15SYT09823640
    O: 662-846-4520
    C: 662-588-8649
    F: 662-846-4099
    http://gis.deltastate.edu

    CONFIDENTIALITY. This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain
confidential, proprietary and privileged information, and unauthorized
disclosure or use is prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error,
please notify the sender and delete this e-mail from your system.
    (Please note Delta State University's email system blocks all email with
.zip attachments)

On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 2:38 AM, Brad Neuhauser <brad.neuhauser at gmail.com>wrote:

> OK, I went back and found the message referenced on the wiki:
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2010-January/047477.html
>
> J-G forwarded a message that included a link to the USGS maps.  The message
> was in response to someone looking for an updated street index, and it spun
> off from there.  If we need further confirmation, user osmapb1--oh, that's
> Adrian--has gone and checked 9 areas and found no differences.  So, yes, I'd
> recommend removing it.  Plenty of other things to work on!  (if noone else
> does it in the next hour or two, I'll do when I have another chance).
>
> Brad
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Karl Guggisberg <
> karl.guggisberg at guggis.ch> wrote:
>
>>  I wrote (guessed) part of what is on the wiki because there was just this
>> list of PDF documents and no furthern info. I'm looking for
>> confirmations/corrections from people who are actually involved in producing
>> these maps. Discussion was to  complete OSM data from the USGS maps but the
>> way it looks now it doesn't make a lot of senset to me. And no, I didn't
>> find any name I could have completed when I had a closer look at three
>> samples areas.
>>
>> Should we simply remove the whole section from the wiki?
>>
>> -- Karl
>>
>> Am 25.01.2010 21:31, schrieb Brad Neuhauser:
>>
>> Is the whole thing on the wiki just wrong?  I haven't looked extensively,
>> but the street names appear to match up.  This would make sense as the map
>> says "Street data courtesy openstreetmap.org"  If there were any other
>> data, it would probably be from MINUSTAH, but that's already mentioned on
>> the OSM Street Names page.  Has anyone seen a specific example of where the
>> USGS maps have more street data than OSM?
>>
>>  Brad
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Adrian Brain <adrianpbrain at yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
>>
>>>   Hi Karl,
>>>
>>> I had trouble understanding what these were too. The pdf's are from Delta
>>> State University  (here<http://edcftp.cr.usgs.gov/pub/data/disaster/201001_Earthquake_Haiti/data/map_products/MISSISSIPPI_DELTA_STATE_MAPS/Haiti_25Kand6Kcombo_lettersize_GeopdfimageAtlas_vDSU20100119/>)
>>> and represent the difference between the road names on the USGS maps and the
>>> road names on osm.
>>>
>>> Names present on the USGS maps but NOT in osm are highlighted in black.
>>>
>>> That is very useful, but there are roughly ninety docs with twenty
>>> (image) pages in each giving 1800 separate comparisons to be made. Also,
>>> updates will have been made to osm, from other sources, since the extract.
>>> So if a name is in black in the pdf but now present in osm that still does
>>> not indicate whether that area has been done or not.
>>>
>>> (And that doesn't include the work of actually putting names into osm
>>> when they are found)
>>>
>>> As each pdf is done it needs to be commented as such.
>>>
>>> I'm happy to start on the job but want to wait for some time in case
>>> anyone has already done some of the work. We can't afford to do such large
>>> amounts of work twice if we can avoid it. It would make sense to work
>>> outwards from PaP but it is the towns where the comparison is most
>>> laborious/time-consuming.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Adrian.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On *Mon, 25/1/10, Karl Guggisberg <karl.guggisberg at guggis.ch>*wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Karl Guggisberg <karl.guggisberg at guggis.ch>
>>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] USGS map areas with street names
>>> To: talk at openstreetmap.org
>>> Date: Monday, 25 January, 2010, 17:34
>>>
>>>
>>>  Hi Adrian
>>>
>>> I also had a look at these maps and I still don't understand completely
>>> how they relate to OSM. The map already displays the OSMs road network, but
>>> where do the street names in the USGS map come from? They aren't taken from
>>> OSM, are they? Are there indeed two road networks in the USGS map, one in
>>> maroon (from OSM) and one from an unknown source (in black)?
>>>
>>> For my taste, navigation in the PDF atlas is too complicated (for
>>> mappers, people in the field may find it useful) and comparing the street
>>> names manually with names displayed on a slippymap in another instance is
>>> way too complicated too. Are the  USGS maps available as tiles served by a
>>> WMS server?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Karl
>>>
>>> Am 25.01.2010 18:13, schrieb Adrian Brain:
>>>
>>>   Wiki page
>>>
>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti/Street_names
>>>
>>> contains a section called "USGS map areas with street names" which
>>> contains a list of pdf's with osm data overlain on USGS imagery with
>>> streetnames missing from osm at the time of preparation highlighted - these
>>> need adding to osm.
>>>
>>> There is nothing to indicate in the wiki which, if any, of these have
>>> been looked at systematically. Checking several at random has not told me
>>> which have been done and which haven't, except for the last page which has
>>> the "No named streets in this section" comment.
>>>
>>> Can anyone say which of these has been done?
>>>
>>> Adrian.
>>>
>>>
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-- 
Nicolas Chavent
Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti
Mobile (FRA): +33 6 75 14 29 70
Email: nicolas.chavent at gmail.com
Skype: c_nicolas
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