[OSM-talk] Russians at it again

Milo van der Linden milo at dogodigi.net
Fri May 7 10:21:05 BST 2010


The Russian OpenStreetMap users have proven that they are capable to 
bring the issue to the international community when they need to before. 
This led to a long discussion on the list dominated (again in my 
opinion) by people having no clue of what it is like to live in Russia.

I think, that if they decide to discuss this matter in their language, 
this will eventually lead to a statement that (I am sure of) they will 
bring to the international community for final verdict.

I can only imagine the frustration when you are trying so hard to do 
OpenStreetMap in an freedom-unfriendly environment but get torpedoed by 
others. Because I am convinced that *ALL* the people in the Russian 
OpenStreetMap community want is to map and use to the highest degree of 
"open" that is possible, they mean no harm to the OpenStreetMap openness 
at all, they are simply trying to cope.

And a little more blunt: Don't point fingers at others.

I greatly encourage and agree to what SteveC and Mikel Maron suggest; 
Invite them over. Open the dialog on a face to face level.


Patrick Kilian wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> My personal opinion: Let them.
> I respect your opinion but I don't think that it is a good idea. But 
> see below for details.
>
>
>> It is a good thing they are figuring out how to enjoy OpenStreetMap 
>> without putting themselves at risk *and* in the mean time try to 
>> prevent a total blockade of OpenStreetMap in Russia.
> It is definitly good that they try to figure out how to map and use 
> OSM in Russia without putting themselves at risk.
>
> BUT that shouldn't mean that they get to descide unilaterally in a 
> language most people in OSM don't understand what can be mapped in 
> Russia.
>
> If they think it is too risky to map a military area fine. But they 
> have no f*cking right to decide if I want to risk to map that area. If 
> that area exists and the "truth on the ground" shows that it is a 
> military area then it must be ok to add it to OSM.
>
> Why? Otherwise we'll loose all our data in China, North Korea and 
> probably several other countries within month. Do you really want 
> Americans to delete the map of Gunantanamo Bay? Do you want Chinese to 
> delete the border around Taiwan? Really really?
>
>
>> People who cannot imagine how it is to have a government that has 
>> "issues" in interpreting freedom of speech 
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech>, freedom of 
>> conscience <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_conscience>, 
>> freedom from fear <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_from_fear> 
>> and freedom from want 
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_from_want> should not interfere 
>> in this particular topic. It makes me sad that having the luxury of 
>> all freedoms, seems to make some people incapable of understanding 
>> that this is NOT (yet) a common privilige in other parts of the world..
> I totally understand that mapping in Russia (or any other 
> "substandard" country) can be a huge risk. I totally understand if 
> they don't want to risk their live, freedom or happiness for five 
> nodes in OSM. But that doesn't give them the right to make rules about 
> what can be mapped and what not.
>
>
> Patrick "Petschge" Kilian
>





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