[OSM-talk] new logo

[SteveC]

On May 16, 2010, at 4:51 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Time for a data model czar and throw away all this backward looking shit of tagging freedom?

Well if you think about it Frederik, I was the data model czar.

> You mean that to keep pace with Waze and Google Map Maker, we should simply drop the libertarian bullshit and become just another company with top-down decision making and a marketing department that does whatever seems best? Just because others manage abuse their "community" by taking their work and giving them nothing in return, save perhaps for a few stars in a ranking list, we should try to pull off the same?

For fscks sake Frederik, I didn't say anything about dropping any of our good stuff like community or data model or open sourceness.

It's really simple - they have a nicer website, they have nicer tools, they have more users than we do (3 times as many) in a fraction of the time and they're far, far better at creating and managing a community of users that we're only starting to get to grips with. All you do is scare them away.

>> And I
>> sense you're pushing against it all because of your idea of what a
>> community should look like, and it's just going to be a cul-de-sac if
>> we insist on all this stuff because the people who want to contribute
>> these days are a whole different crowd that people like waze are much
>> better at helping. And it should be _us_ at the forefront not them!
> 
> To me, someone contributing to TomTom MapShare or Waze or Google Map Maker or any other we-own-all-your-work project is just a cow being milked. Old-fashioned world view maybe, but this is the one point were personally I am totally, absolutely unwilling to move. It is absolutely clear to me that there's a giant gap between what we are doing and what they are doing. We treat our community with respect because we're in this together; they do it for their, or their shareholders', monetary gain. For them, it is a fucking *job*. I am not even willing to compare.

Did I say anywhere 'treat them like a cow' or anything like that? For the 4th time, I like waze's design and a bunch of stuff they've done. That doesn't mean I like closed data, or something, or that they're perfect.

Here's the important bit:

You have to get it in to your head Frederik that my mum (to pick an example) wants to contribute to OSM, and she doesn't want to jump through all the hoops you did to do so. She wants to facebook friend us. She wants to be appreciated on twitter. She wants a simple feedback button. Learning JOSM isn't an option. Learning potlatch isn't. Maybe, maybe, learning mapzen POI editor is. Probably not even something like mapmaker.

And all you can say is "fuck off we don't want you" is *incredibly* backward, and holding back the project.

>> (surely this thread is that introduction) before he can have an
>> opinion about the logo. And frankly, like balancing a lawyers opinion
>> vs. your legal opinion and a designers opinion vs your clipart
>> comments, I'm going to pick the lawyer and the designer. For someone
>> so bright why you can't see your own limitations is baffling to me.
> 
> As I tried to explain above, his work did not meet what I would expect from a professional designer. I am speaking as one - tiny - part of this designer's client, OSM.

With a - big - mouth.

> Speaking of being baffled, I am slightly surprised that you seem to be so happy with this mediocre logo.

I'm not - but it is better than what we have now. And like I said, I'm more interested in fixing this fucked up process where whenever someone tries something a small band don't like, they get shat all over.

Yours &c.

Steve