[OSM-talk] Proposal: winter roads

Gleb Smirnoff glebius at glebius.int.ru
Sat Oct 9 09:56:07 BST 2010


  Dave,

On Sat, Oct 09, 2010 at 12:13:14AM +0100, Dave F. wrote:
D> The wiki page describes subjective information.
D> 
D> Unless it's actually closed by authority don't say it's impassible. For 
D> instance in defense of your argument that it's impassable you say the 
D> average speed is 0.5km/h. This comment proves the it *is* passable, just 
D> very slowly.

No this one is not passable, and vast majority of other winter roads are
not passable, too. Let me explain again: first, the photo is taken
at a piece of winter road that is reachable by 4x4 vehicle. Evidently,
I can't make a photo of a vehicle at a place where vehicle can't get to.
If I walk there by foot, and make photo w/o vehicle on road, the photo
won't tell anything: an untouched muskeg swamp looks like a meadow. Dmitri
has added another photo of winter road, it demonstates better the terrain:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/surface:winter_road

I didn't put that photo first, since composition doesn't include cutline
going to horizon, no road seen.

So, winter road may contain sections driveable by 4x4 in summer, but in
most cases entire transit via winter road is not possible, due to river
crossing, long on-swamp sections, etc.

Second, 0.5 klm/h means unpassable if road is a distant one. The road
photo is taken at is 150 klms long. Vehicle can't carry enough fuel to
travel 150 klms at 0.5 klm/h speed. And no winch will survive that.

Concerning authorities: in spring, when road starts to melt, but weather
is still very cold, some roads are closed administratively, because entering
them is a risk of death. In summer they are just abandoned, 4x4 fans may
enter them and try theirselves.

D> The reason the vehicles in the picture needs winches is because they're 
D> *not* suited to the terrain, not that the terrain is impassible.
D> 
D> A colleague of mine has a Ural truck that *could* travel this way.
D> 
D> *http://www.4wdonline.com/Mil/Ural/PiCs37/375D.jpg*

Ha-ha! Believe me, Dave, Urals never ever drive winter roads in summer.
This is what any Ural driver from northern Russia will tell you.

A light 4x4 weighting 1.5 - 2.5 tons has more chances in swamp than
Ural, whose empty chassy weight over 8 tons and average vehicle weigths
over 11. And you can see on the second photo that we reached place, where
deep ruts from Ural end, and untouched swamp begins.

D> As I said before, please don't tag ways based on your limited 
D> experiences, tag them on *factual* information, & leave subjective 
D> decisions of whether they're *able* to the people traveling that way.

Yes! This is what we are going to do. We want to mark winter roads as winter
roads, and users may decide theirselves whether they are passable or not:
look at satellite image, seek for swamps and river crossings and may be try
theirselves.

If you just dislike the word "impassable" in wiki page, we can transform it
"probably impassable" or smth else, you prefer. And if you do a transit via
long winter road in summer, on a road-legal vehicle,
I owe you a box of beer. :)

-- 
Totus tuus, Glebius.



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