[OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap

ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.gremmen at cetest.nl
Fri Oct 15 13:40:00 BST 2010


>I agree that we need to have a map to demonstrate what one can do with OSM. But in my opinion, the one we currently have already surpasses, by a large >margin, that which would be required to attract people to the project. And still people whine about our "lack of vision"!

Nonsense Frederic, Justin makes a number of very valid points
that make the impression on the average visitor, that show
we are a unstructured community in some ways.

And no-one is whining, we are trying to make a better 
OSM, and the mapnik map is in most of the cass the first
impression the user gets.

We have voluntarily choosen to use the MAP(NIK) as 80% of our
frontpage. There are no statements about that are just
in for data quality.

That is the first (and too often) the last impression
a visitor gets.

Gert Gremmen
-----------------------------------------------------

Openstreetmap.nl  (alias: cetest)
 Before printing, think about the environment. 



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: talk-bounces at openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-bounces at openstreetmap.org] Namens Frederik Ramm
Verzonden: Friday, October 15, 2010 1:23 PM
Aan: Kai Krueger
CC: talk at openstreetmap.org
Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk] Response to A critique of OpenStreetMap

Kai,

Kai Krueger wrote:
> Well, Navteq and Tele Atlas also don't have to attract many hundreds of
> thousands of volunteers to create their data, many of whom are likely not
> able to or willing to have to deal with tens of Gb of raw vector data to be
> able to benefit from the work they put in. Thus Navteq and Tele Atlas don't
> really have a direct interest in the public seeing them as particularly
> useful or relevant.  This is rather different for OpenStreetMap.

I agree that we need to have a map to demonstrate what one can do with 
OSM. But in my opinion, the one we currently have already surpasses, by 
a large margin, that which would be required to attract people to the 
project. And still people whine about our "lack of vision"!

> Now it is possible that OpenStreetMap can successfully outsource this
> process of turning its data into something useful to various other
> (commercial) projects not associated with OSM,

I'd say that e.g. MapQuest very much associate themselves with OSM, 
wouldn't you?

And it need not be commercial enterprises either. I think there's room 
for an open source cartography portal where people get together to 
create really slick maps (from OSM data, most likely), acquire funding 
and resources to publish, print, or otherwise distribute them, and so 
on. I don't think that OpenStreetMap should be aim to take this place.

> If this isn't achieved, then OSM might simply not be able to attract enough
> mappers to create the high quality data it aims for. They'd then rather go
> to something like waze or google map maker who give them something back.

Oh great, if the viability of OSM depends on what products *we* make 
from the data, why make the data open in the first place? You're 
painting the picture of a pure consumer, one who is unwilling and unable 
to make use of the most valuable asset OSM has to offer, namely the 
source data, one who simply wants someone else to produce a nice map for 
them. I say: Let these people go to Waze or Google Map Maker if they 
don't need what OSM has to offer.

Waze or GMM deliver products created by professionals as part of their 
paid job; the price you pay for that as a user is that you have to take 
what they give you. If this works for someone, then let them take the 
offer. OpenStreetMap does not employ paid cartographers and product 
designers, and in my opinion should not aim at doing so.

> That is why it is sometimes useful to listen to such well illustrated
> critiques as this one. They show how others, potential new mappers, view
> OSM, and highlight where OSM should either inspire to improve or at least
> aim to communicate better where else to get those needs satisfied.

Yes, maybe it really is time for a big banner across openstreetmap.org: 
"This is not a slick online map web site, and not meant to be one."

> Of cause, many of the points of this critique actually concerned the data
> and its inconsistency in tagging, rather than the tools or style-sheets, 
> and so it would be equally important for mappers to realise that perhaps
> inventing yet another tagging schema, even if it might locally be better,
> might not be particularly helpful as it wont be supported my anything.

One could also go in the other direction and drop the requirement that 
one and the same piece of software must be able to process OSM data 
world-wide...

Bye
Frederik

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