[OSM-talk] Things People Say

Fri Dec 30 09:29:08 GMT 2011

I would like to see a combination (yes, I could work on that myself, but 
neither I'm a rails coder, nor do I have the time - sorry ;) ) of a map 
and the data.
Observing Kothic.js as a client side rendering engine and some 
approaches and ideas towards tile based data delivery I wish we could 
have one example map, but a map editor, too on the front page.

Imagine, the front page would load the data you need to display the map 
style you decided to view for the area you want to display.
Imagine, you could use checkboxes to add or remove a feature, color 
choosers to choose a color and for people who want to, define your very 
own styles in a textbox accepting e.g. MapCSS-definitions.
It would probably even be possible to use the 
alternative-stylesheet-mechanisms the browsers provide to set up a 
client side stylesheet for my personal osm map view.

I know, that's a lot of work. I know, I'm not the one implementing that 
(in the next months), and I wish I would have the time to learn rails 
and do it.
But it would be a compromise between the "we are a map" and the "we are 
a data" provider.
It would be the "we are a data provider" with the addition of user 
friendly presentation of the data - and not presentation of a (the?) 
map, because: The Mapnik rendering is a presentation of data. Parts of 
the stylesheet are designed to be a presentation of the data and not to 
make the nicest map AFAIK.

Doing this rendering on client side, supported by all major browsers 
would lead to
- more diversity in maps ("share your GPX, share your Data, share your 
Map-Style (!)")
- probably better pointing to the database without being a geek-only-game
- probably forming the idea of "they have data" better at a probably 
lower user level.

regards
Peter

Am 29.12.2011 22:39, schrieb Ben Johnson:
> For what it's worth I also think it's very important to have a 
> prominent map on the front page and I believe this whole debate just 
> highlights the fact that OSM is not ready for mainstream and remains a 
> geeky subculture.
>
> There seems to be a duality of identity here. On one hand, some are 
> saying lets make it more accessible and friendly to "ordinary people". 
> On the other hand, some appear embarrassed by the prominence of maps 
> to represent what our community is all about, and they want to retain 
> a geeky "we are not a map, we are a database" ideology.
>
> The two goals are completely incompatible because "ordinary people" 
> expect OSM to be all about maps. In fact, I was drawn into the project 
> on the premise that OSM is "the Wikipedia of maps", and I found it an 
> exciting prospect to contribute to such a great idea.
>
> Well... you go over to Wikipedia and the first thing you see is the 
> front page of an encyclopedia, ready to be searched and used as such. 
> You know there's no bells and whistles, and thats a good thing. You're 
> attracted by the clean commercial-free environment, and you have 
> confidence that the information in Wikipedia has been lovingly 
> provided by contributors who want to leave their legacy to the world 
> by sharing their knowledge and expertise, and rigorously reviewed and 
> checked by other contributors.
>
> You don't hear Wikipedia trumpeting "we are not an encyclopedia, we 
> are a database of information." No... they scream from the mountain 
> tops "we are the world's encyclopedia", and absolutely relish in it.
>
> Why can't OSM be also scream from
> a nearby mountain top, "we are the world's map".... I mean, what's so 
> embarrassing about providing a good, comprehensive, accessible map? 
> It's an accomplishment of which we should all be proud, not hide away.
>
> Yes we don't have gimmicks like street view and satellite view. So too 
> Wikipedia lacks rich multimedia content. It's simple, clean, fast, 
> comprehensive, accurate - and yet very very successful.
>
> Again, what is embarrassing about a map?
>
> I really do hope OSM finds its way through this quagmire of identity 
> and eventually becomes the world's map, widely used, integrated, and 
> quoted in all kinds of spheres.
>
> That's my vision.
>
> BJ
>
>
> On 29/12/2011, at 9:09, "Barnett, Phillip" <PHILLIP.BARNETT at ITN.CO.UK 
> <mailto:PHILLIP.BARNETT at ITN.CO.UK>> wrote:
>
>> Well yes, but instead you've got a very conspicuous link saying 
>> 'Where's the map? .. here it is."
>>
>> And also four other obvious maps below that even!
>>
>>
>>
>> PHILLIP BARNETT
>> SERVER MANAGER
>>
>> 200 GRAY'S INN ROAD
>> LONDON
>> WC1X 8XZ
>> UNITED KINGDOM
>> T +44 (0)20 7430 4474
>> F
>> E PHILLIP.BARNETT at ITN.CO.UK <mailto:PHILLIP.BARNETT at ITN.CO.UK>
>> WWW.ITN.CO.UK <http://WWW.ITN.CO.UK>
>> Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this email?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Frederik Ramm [mailto:frederik at remote.org]
>> Sent: 28 December 2011 21:51
>> To: Thomas Davie
>> Cc: talk at openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk at openstreetmap.org>
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 12/28/2011 10:41 PM, Thomas Davie wrote:
>> > This is a lot better though than "Can you believe it, OpenStreetMap 
>> doesn't even have an open street map on their home page!".
>>
>> We've been using http://www.openstreetmap.de/ in its current form for 6
>> weeks now. I'll let you know when someone complains that it has no map.
>> (The earlier version did have an OpenLayers map on the front page but
>> using only about 1/3 of screen real estate.)
>>
>> Bye
>> Frederik
>>
>> --
>> Frederik Ramm ## eMail frederik at remote.org 
>> <mailto:frederik at remote.org> ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk at openstreetmap.org>
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>> Please Note:
>>
>> Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not 
>> necessarily represent those of Independent Television News Limited 
>> unless specifically stated. This email and any files attached are 
>> confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or 
>> entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email 
>> in error, please notify postmaster at itn.co.uk 
>> <mailto:postmaster at itn.co.uk>
>>
>> Please note that to ensure regulatory compliance and for the 
>> protection of our clients and business, we may monitor and read 
>> messages sent to and from our systems.
>>
>> Thank You.
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk at openstreetmap.org>
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20111230/555ac82f/attachment-0001.html>