[OSM-talk] Slippy map with Bing background

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 07/20/12 04:05, Alan Mintz wrote:
> Is there a browser-viewable OSM-with-Bing-imagery-mashup somewhere that
> can be used as citable source for Wikipedia?

I am not aware of any. Closest there is is probably this OpenMapSurfer 
hybrid view that combines MapQuest open with an OSM overlay:

http://openmapsurfer.uni-hd.de/?zoom=12&lat=40.74702&lon=-73.98163&layers=0000B0TFF

Conceivably you could use their hybrid tiles and show them on top of 
Bing, with a few lines of OpenLayers code.

> I'm suggesting OSM as a
> potential source for accurate coordinates in WP articles, but realize
> that positioning is not necessarily reliable unless specifically tagged
> or easily compared against license-compatible imagery.

I know of areas where the positioning of the Bing imagery is *less* 
reliable than OSM, so your inherent assumption that OSM needs to be 
verified against Bing is not universally correct.

> I'm assuming:
> a) Getting coords from OSM and using them in WP (with cite) is allowed
> (is there a standard cite format?)

It is certainly allowed, however once we have switched to ODbL, this 
*may* lead to Wikipedia being affected by ODbL virality.

Extracting individual coordinates is certainly insubstantial and 
therefore doesn't trigger ODbL but: "The repeated and systematic 
Extraction or Re-utilisation of insubstantial parts of the Contents may 
amount to the Extraction or Re-utilisation of a Substantial part of the 
Contents."

So if coordinates were extracted repeatedly and systematically then the 
coordinate database that is built on Wikipedia servers would fall under 
ODbL, requiring that the source be named (which you plan to do anyway) 
and that the database, or steps to reproduce it from OSM, be made 
available under ODbL on request.

This is probably not a big thing but one should have answers ready for 
when someone comes asking.

> b) Looking at the Bing imagery to confirm OSM positioning is allowed, so
> looking at the two together is allowed to get coords even if the user
> doesn't choose to edit OSM to reflect them.

The terms that Bing gave us say:

"The rights that you have under this agreement are limited solely to
aerial imagery use in a non-commercial online editor application of 
OpenStreetMap maps."

(source: 
http://getfile4.posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/opengeodata/KBFLW0WtSjhm2DYBRZzJNsq56xnwcTfzXQoEZwz5vP7NZyk5LWJ4oFJ58AU2/Bing_Maps_Imagery_Editor_API_L.pdf)

(source: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Bing_license.pdf)

 > I realize that Potlatch and JOSM can do this - I'm
 > looking for a browser-only, no-login/no-edit solution.

If you display Bing tiles in

* anything else than an editor;
* anything that is an editor but not for OpenStreetMap;
* anything that is an editor for OSM but not online
* anything that is an online editor for OSM but commercial

then the agreement does not cover you, and you are instead bound by the 
standard usage policies for Bing tiles which, I believe, do not allow 
the extraction of coordinates for storing in a database.

However, if I understand you correctly, you don't even want to extrat 
coordinates, you just want to check whether OSM and Bing agree or not- 
something that could be ok in the standard terms. (I'm unsure about what 
the standard terms say or don't say about overlaying third-party hybrid 
layers.)

Also, maybe it is ok to take this license agreement with a grain of 
salt; after all, JOSM is using Bing tiles too and it is not an online 
editor.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"