[OSM-talk] Import guidelines & OSMF/DWG governance

[Marc Sibert]

Le 18/09/2012 23:31, Frederik Ramm a écrit :
> Marc,
>
> On 18.09.2012 21:53, Marc Sibert wrote:
>> I thing the point is not why my account was blocked, but why someone
>> have the right to block an account and whatfor ?
>
> I think that we need import guidelines, and we need people who can 
> block those who don't follow the guidelines, otherwise having 
> guidelines doesn't make sense.
On that particuliar point you are right : rules have to be followed to 
maintain the community, or else "man will loose his head / on lui 
coupera la tête".
> Many reasons have been given in support of the "separate account" rule 
> in the guidelines already. But let me add one more thing:
None of these reasons apply to Cadastre uploads (previously 
discussed)... that only my point of view (not only mine in fact).
> Others have said that you are a respected and well known mapper in 
> France. If that's true, then I think that you should lead by example. 
> Even if you feel that in your particular case you don't need a 
> separate account - create one anyway, because others will follow your 
> example, and if the message you send to new mappers in France is 
> "don't bother about those silly policies" then we'll have people 
> violating *other* aspects of the policy - even those you would agree 
> with! - in no time.
>
> Just like a professional pilot with thousands of flying hours' 
> experience will still execute all procedures "by the book" instead of 
> taking shortcuts that his experience would allow him to, a long-time 
> respected mapper should also play by the book and be a good example to 
> others.
Some time rules have to be breaked and changed because "the field" shows 
there limits. I would not lead to the wrong direction (to my mind). I do 
not simply "bother", but I think the policies *are* stupid in the 
Cadastre case. Now, we are arguing, discussing... I win :-) Next step, 
we will change the rule. I am french (latin ?), I used to discuss orders !
>> In fact DWG people just don't like imports and are jalous of the
>> "opendata" wind in France. Your anoying !
>
> The amount of open geodata in the world is several orders of magnitude 
> more than what we have in OSM. Decisions need to be made about which 
> parts of that are worth importing; import everything and OSM comes to 
> a grinding halt.
Again, I follow you on that point.
And in all that data, I choose French Cadastre (only buildings layer)
> DWG does not have an "imports are bad" policy but if it were for me, 
> personally, I would require from every importer an analysis about how 
> the import does not only make the *map* better, but also makes the 
> *community* better. Imports to help the community would be acceptable; 
> imports "instead of" community would not.
>
I have the opposite point of view : The object of OSM is to be complete 
and usefull (full of "good" data), not to contribute endless. So first, 
import automaticaly and then correct with humain brain. Of course I 
learned that this extrem PoV is not available... also in french 
community. Still, data are for computers, not for humans !
> Today, France has 50% more data in OSM than Germany. I am not jealous 
> of that. I would be jealous if France had 50% more mappers and I 
> sincerely hope that the French community can find ways to engage more 
> people to help. But for all its data glory, the number of people who 
> have made more than 100 edits this year in France is about 3000, and 
> the same number in Germany is about 6000. This means - very roughly of 
> course - that the average French OSMer must keep three times as much 
> data current as the average German mapper. And you can't do that with 
> imports forever - there comes a time when you'll have to switch to 
> "maintenance mode".
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
Humm you seem to like numbers. Personal contributions are too slow. Demo :

In France we have about 36000 municipalities. Has you wrote, there is 
about 1000 (up to 3000) active contributors in the country.  I needed 3 
months to cover my (small - 7000 inhabitants) village (without 
buildings). So we need about 36 * 3 = 108 months = 9 years.

That's why we need of help of the machines... asta la vista, baby !

My pleasure to read you.

-- 
Marc Sibert
mailto:marc at sibert.fr