[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Isn't All That Open, Let's Change That and Drop Share-Alike

Peter Wendorff wendorff at uni-paderborn.de
Fri Mar 14 13:52:21 UTC 2014

Hi Jukka,
although I'm curious about an answer from someone who's more competent
in the legal things, I'm not sure with your argument here.

ODBL does not require Share-Alike for produced works.
The map, even when based on OSM data is a produced work.
Therefore even if the map is based on osm data, it's not share-alike,
and any data based on the map IMHO cannot be share-alike too.

Let's assume the opposite:
- The map is a produced work and may be published on any license (more
restrictive as well as more open than ODBL), so let's assume the map is
CC-BY (without Share-Alike),
- Then from CC-BY it follows that anyone could derive other stuff from
that map without being obliged to follow any share-alike clause.

So if anyone would require data gathered on top of an osm map to be
share-alike, he's wrong (or ODBL contradicts itself in this example in
some way).
As I assume the ODBL to be checked many times, I assume yet that
therefore your implication chain to be wrong and new data collected on
top of an osm based produced work is not tainted with share-alike from ODBL.

Nevertheless I am not a lawyer, so someone else may proove me wrong If I am.

You mention Google Maps as a possible alternative to prevent this
problem. I disagree here, too. If you're talking about a substantial
amount of data derived from (or above) an OSM based map, the same would
be forbidden with google maps data, too. As the terms of service of
google state (German version):

"Sofern Sie zuvor keine schriftliche Genehmigung von Google bzw. dem
Anbieter der betreffenden Inhalte erhalten haben, dürfen Sie (a) den
Inhalt weder ganz noch teilweise kopieren, übersetzen, abändern oder
abgeleitete Werke daraus erstellen"

translated by me: "without written permission of Google or the affected
data providers your are not allowed to copy (in parts or as a whole),
translate or modify the content or produce derived works from it."

Therefore the same as for OSM holds for any content of Google Maps, and
you probably should think about using Google as an alternative from a
legal point of view.


Am 14.03.2014 14:17, schrieb Jukka Rahkonen:
> Simon Poole wrote:
>> One thing I would like to hear about in this context of this discussion,
> are examples of concrete use cases that are not happening because of
> share alike and that are in general things that the community would like
> to support (so not "evil corp can't take the data now and keep it").
> Concrete in the sense that they are uses that really would happen if
> share alike would be dropped, not "we can build a straw man that shows
> how bad share alike is".
> Hi Simon,
> We have considered that we cannot use OpenStreetMap as a background map in
> any of the applications where users are sending location aware information
> back to administration. For showing existing data it would be OK but not
> for gathering data from users because user could locate a place "corner of
> Annankatu and Merimiehenkatu" http://osm.org/go/0xPLoLTa0?m= by looking at
> the OSM map. The interpretation of ODbL is that this location is derived
> from OSM data and thus the database of the administration would become
> ODbL. It could be OK in some use cases but some data are confidential and
> ODbL is not an option. Therefore we do not use OSM at all. We use our own
> services and Google Maps.
> This is a concrete example. However, changing the interpretation of ODbL
> into "georeferencing locations by looking at OSM map does not yield a
> derivative database" would not necessarily change the situation in Finland
> any more because since 2012 most raster and vector data from the National
> Land Survey of Finland have been open data under attribution-only license.
> Because of this using the data is simple. This has also helped OSM because
> raster maps and aerial images can be utilized for digitizing and vector
> data imports have started this year.
> Jukka Rahkonen-
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