[OSM-talk] European border control points - could use some help mapping

[Blake Girardot]

Hi Rafael,

Ya, that is interesting Rafael.

For sure if there is no border control facility, staffed or unstaffed, I 
wouldn't map anything there if there is nothing related to that.

I was mostly thinking of the place where a facility or structure exists 
still, staffed or unstaffed, the control point still exists.

And i see what you mean about why there might be a lack of them in the 
Shengen zone.

Thank you for the insight.

Cheers,
Blake



On 10/5/2015 7:15 PM, Rafael Avila Coya wrote:
> Hi, Blake:
>
> I agree that border controls in the areas affected by the ongoing
> refugee crisis that were disused until recently but are active again,
> should be tagged accordingly. What I mean is that in other areas like
> Spain with Portugal, those borders aren't staffed at all, any time.
>
> I live just 10 km from the Portugal border. The border in this area is
> made by a wide river. Until the 80's there was only one 19th century
> bridge, both for car, pedestrians and train [1]. The border control
> offices are completely disused, all the time. No staff there whatsoever.
>
> Apart from that, several bridges have been constructed, with no border
> control facilities at all, one of them just meters down the river from
> the old one [2]. Should we tag those crossings of border? I don't think so.
>
> My opinion is that your schema of border_control=yes + disused=yes could
> be ok for the old bridge, but not for other crossing points. And in any
> case, in the event that Spain and Portugal would one day activate their
> border controls, all bridges would have to build border facilities for
> document and goods control. Only that time would make sense to create
> the corresponding nodes.
>
> In any case, what I wanted to point out is the reason why you can see so
> few border_control nodes in some areas of Europe and so many in others,
> like East Europe.
>
> Best,
>
> Rafael.
>
> [1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/30641204
> [2] https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/6246191
>
> On 05/10/15 17:26, Blake Girardot wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> My experience is that the border control points still exist, they are
>> just not always staffed. Traffic still has to pass through them, just
>> there may or may not be anyone in the booths.
>>
>> That is why I don't think it is wrong to mark them as
>> barrier=border_control points, they still are border control points,
>> just not staffed regularly or the control is very permissive.
>>
>> Which could change until the place is dismantled and made into something
>> else or the border no longer exists.
>>
>> Also, more and more border control points that were not actively staffed
>> are being staffed now due to the refugee crisis.
>>
>> I guess if you knew they were not being used, even as a funnel for
>> traffic, like they were bypassed totally, you could add disused=yes to
>> them.
>>
>> Cheers
>> blake
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/5/2015 5:13 PM, Rafael Avila Coya wrote:
>>> Hi, Blake:
>>>
>>> Just a question.
>>>
>>> Many countries in Europe are part of the Schengen agreement, so there is
>>> no passport nor id control of any kind at borders. That's why you don't
>>> find almost any border control nodes between Spain and Portugal or
>>> France, for example. And those that are mapped should be wrong. Unless
>>> we want to mark the border controls that are physically there, but
>>> aren't being used. We should use a different tag for that, or qualify
>>> the barrier key with a border_control=* new tag, or something similar.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Rafael.
>>>
>>> On 05/10/15 16:53, Blake Girardot wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> OSM could really use more barrier=border_control nodes mapped in Europe
>>>> both western and eastern. Some countries are pretty good, but some are
>>>> really missing most if not all of their border crossing points mapped.
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure this is something that is really good for armchair mappers
>>>> like myself so I was really hoping we all might map a few we have
>>>> personal experience with or knowledge of and see if we can't make a dent
>>>> in the missing points.
>>>>
>>>> Here is a map of how the border_control nodes looked a few days ago
>>>> in OSM:
>>>>
>>>> http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/europe-border-control-points-osm-data_54784#6/48.480/21.160
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How to map these points (and it is only applicable to single nodes) is
>>>> here:
>>>>
>>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier%3Dborder_control
>>>>
>>>> I don't think it matters if the barrier is blocking the crossing or not
>>>> as long as there is a border control point there.
>>>>
>>>> Please feel free to forward this to the appropriate country specific
>>>> email lists if you think that would help us get a more complete map of
>>>> these points.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Blake (bgirardot)
>>>>
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>>>
>