[OSM-talk] What is 'Attic Data'? or 'Why can't wiki writers use plain language'.

malenki osm_ at malenki.ch
Tue Feb 9 17:33:55 UTC 2016


On Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:44:38 +0000,
Dave F wrote:

> On 07/02/2016 09:43, malenki wrote:
> >> Why is there no explanation of it's meaning? After too much time
> >> using google I find it means old information. Why not say that?
> >> Wouldn't 'historical snapshot' be a bit clearer?  
> > A year ago I would liked to have found an explanation of "Attic
> > Data" too, since the average OSM user knows it from the OSM website
> > as "history" or "chronic" (German). If the term "history" would at
> > least have been placed near "Attic Data" I would have found it by
> > full text searching the wiki page.
> > I was unable to connect "OSM history" and "Attic Data", even with
> > using search engines. I had to ask on IRC and as I was told I was
> > looking for "Attic Data" I thought 'WTF! what a stupid name! Nobody
> > ever will find that in the wiki'
> > I've added an explanation by now; hopefully it will be considered
> > helpful:
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Overpass_API/Overpass_QL&diff=1270275&oldid=1262567
> >
> > Why didn't you do it? :)  
> 
> How?

You said yourself:
>>>[…] I find it means old information

> How are inexperienced users, 

You still didn't define what you think is an "inexperienced user". When
I think of in how many fields I am inexperienced I may as well go and
shoot me. :)

> using the wiki to learn something new, meant to know how to improve
> it when it's incorrect.

When they find a piece of information missing from the wiki they may
just add it?

> That you suggest I do it, implies you don't understand the purpose of
> a wiki.

I don't care if I understand the purpose of a wiki in the way other
people may think of it. I know that I can contribute the little I know
– and if I am wrong I hopefully get corrected. This is the same with
OSM data.

> It seems many believe it's a place to show off how knowledgeable they 
> are by using the latest, trendy language.

You repeat nonsense without proving your point.

> > I am nearly totally inexperienced in programming but even JOSM has
> > a built-in interface to query the Overpass API.
> > With overpass turbo and its wizard you need very little experience
> > of whatsoever to create a successful query.  

> You appear to misunderstand my main point: Putting uncommon
> expressions in the wiki (any part, not just Overpass) deters users
> from learning how to use OSM & it's offshoot programs.

If you refer to attic data as "uncommon" 
a) other people already mentioned that it is used since at least 25
years
b) I already explained that I also had troubles with it and that there
should be a verbose explanation on the wiki.

Would the people who put "Attic data" on the Overpass QL Page have used
"historic data" I am sure people would have complained about confusion
between historic data on the API and historic data on OSM.

Pray tell, had you written the Overpass API, how would you have named
this feature?

> >> who aren't fully aware of all the latest hip language (that
> >> often goes out of fashion 6 months later).  
> > Well, since this is a name of a feature of a wide- and heavily used
> > tool I doubt that it is part of a fashion hipster language.  
> 
> That you also had to ask, & others are unaware of its meaning, proves
> it isn't in common usage.

It may be not common in the GIS peer group. And as was shown, "attic"
isn't a hipster invention but quite seasoned. You may throw a 'cvs
attic' on the search engine of your liking. Regrettably Google and
Wikipedia didn't exist back then but there are a little younger entries
you may find interesting like 
https://www.dokuwiki.org/attic?do=revisions
http://de.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Data+Attic

> > You can help doing this, too.  
> 
> Again, how?

I explained it above.

> PS This post is a good example why I don't use IRC. Responses there
> only helps one user.

Who keeps you from writing your enhanced knowledge to the wiki, your
blog or elsewhere?

> Here on the list or web forums a record is kept that *all* can read
> & learn from.

Just the latency in IRC is usually a lot shorter than on the other
channels. And for me, having IRC open all the time, I just have to
write a sentence into the write channel instead of logging into a
forum, format a text and wait for an answer. In short: much lower
barriers.

hth
Thomas





More information about the talk mailing list