[OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

Tue Oct 24 12:04:37 UTC 2017

Even without disabling - what a better tool fixes, JOSM's autofix won't
find...

On 17 October 2017 at 09:50, Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrakhan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, you kind of can fix one with the other - by introducing a better
> tool and disabling some of the autofixes in JOSM (very easy to do).  A more
> complex approach would clearly require a separate topic(s) and a
> substantial dev involvement.
>
> P.S. No, https://master.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/ doesn't have any real
> data (it shows maps from live servers, but editing shows just a few
> objects).
>
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 3:36 AM, Tobias Zwick <osm at westnordost.de> wrote:
>
>> I get your point, especially regarding the appliance of the JOSM
>> fix-button as a "by-the-way" fixing.
>>
>> Though, you can't fix possible issues with of one tool by introducing
>> another tool. People will not stop using (that feature of) JOSM. That is
>> why I think, if you think you detected a problematic issue there in that
>> editor, it should be discussed in a separate topic.
>>
>> On 17/10/2017 00:57, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>> > Michael, I can only judge by my own experience adding validation autofix
>> > rules - I added a number of Wikipedia tag auto cleanups to JOSM, and
>> > they were reviewed by one or two JOSM developers and merged, probably
>> > because they were deemed benign.  I don't know about the other rules,
>> > but I suspect many of them also went this route.  Should have they been
>> > discussed more widely? I don't know, but that question is complicated,
>> > just like "what is a local community?" question. What a few devs may see
>> > as benign, others may say needs a discussion, right?
>> >
>> > Mass editing is a different matter.  We consider mass editing when one
>> > person goes out to fix something everywhere in the world.  But when we
>> > provide a tool that automatically fixes something that you are looking
>> > at, we don't view it as such.  Or at least we don't view it when it
>> > happens as part of JOSM, but we do when it happens in my new tool. Of
>> > course there is an important difference - JOSM doesn't guide you towards
>> > those cases.
>> >
>> > I think massive "by-the-way" fixing is far worse than the targeted fix
>> > of a single issue.
>> >
>> > When you want to fix a single issue in many places, you become a subject
>> > matter expert.  You know all about that change, how it interacts with
>> > other tags, what to watch out for, how to handle bad values, etc.  For
>> > example, when fixing wikipedia tags, you would see the types of mistakes
>> > people make, wrong prefixes people use, incorrect url encodings, hash
>> > tags in urls, incorrect multiple values, ... .    When you simply click
>> > "fix" because JOSM validator tells you it can fix it automatically, you
>> > don't have that knowledge, so it effectively becomes a distributed
>> > mechanical edit without the "reject" capability.  My tool tries to
>> > address this - to build domain experts in a narrow field, and let those
>> > experts review changes one by one. I do not discount the value of local
>> > knowledge, but it is not a panacea - you must be both to make
>> > intelligent choices, and in some cases, the domain knowledge is more
>> > important than the knowledge of a specific locale.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Michael Reichert
>> > <osm-ml at michreichert.de <mailto:osm-ml at michreichert.de>> wrote:
>> >
>> >     Hi Yuri,
>> >
>> >     Am 16.10.2017 um 16:02 schrieb Yuri Astrakhan:
>> >     > Rory, most of those queries were copied from the current JOSM
>> validator
>> >     > autofixes.  I don't think they were discussed, but they might
>> have been
>> >     > mass applied without much thought by all sorts of editors.
>> >
>> >     Could you please give examples for (a) the mass appliance of these
>> rules
>> >     and (b) rules which have not been discussed but should have been
>> >     discussed?
>> >     > There are two ways to use the tool - you can write your own
>> query, run it,
>> >     > and fix whatever it is you want to fix. That's the power user
>> mode -
>> >     > anything goes, no different from JOSM or Level0. And there is
>> another one -
>> >     > where you go to osm wiki, read the instructions, find the task
>> you may want
>> >     > to work on, and go at it.   The community reviews wiki content,
>> tags
>> >     > different pages with different explanation or warning boxes, etc.
>> The
>> >     > discussion could still be on the forum, or here, or in IRC, ....
>> >
>> >     Just for future readers: IRC and Telegram channels are no
>> replacement
>> >     for a mailing list or a forum with a public readable archive where
>> you
>> >     can look up the discussions years later.
>> >
>> >     Best regards
>> >
>> >     Michael
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >     --
>> >     Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt.
>> (Mailinglisten
>> >     ausgenommen)
>> >     I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)
>> >
>> >
>> >     _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>>
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