[OSM-talk] Fixing OSM wikipedia redirects

Sarah Hoffmann lonvia at denofr.de
Tue Sep 26 08:29:17 UTC 2017


On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 04:03:35AM -0400, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> Sarah, my understanding is that MapRoulette does not support it -- I cannot
> upload the following:
> 
> For Object ID nnnn,  change one set of tags for another -- accept or
> decline?

No you can't and you shouldn't. Clicking through to two websites and
copying the link is absolutely ok.

> Yes, the community can do it, the question is - should it?  Given 2
> challenges, one that requires some thought, and the other that require
> clicking yes without thinking, shouldn't we opt to the one that computers
> cannot do?  

That's exactly what I'm saying. People don't always want to do the
complicated tasks. There is enough in that in the day job. Sometimes
just clicking through a pile of wikipedia links is totally enough.

Don't just leave the complicated, messy parts of your scripts to the
mappers. It tends to be demotivating because there is no real progress
if you always have to do a lot of research for each single item. And
it is especially demotivating when it is the result of an automated
edit because it feels like spending your time to clean up other people's
mess.

We've just cleaned up hundereds of thousands of polygons through
Maproulette tasks. The popular challenges were the ones which were it
was clear what was to do (not necessarily the same as fixing was easy,
there were complicated multipolygon relations involved), not the ones
where you had to carefully analyse the map to understand what is
going on.

Sarah

> We seemed to assume that donated time is free, unlimited, and
> has very little value. I feel we should treat donated time as the most
> precious and most scarce resource we could get.
> 
> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Sarah Hoffmann <lonvia at denofr.de> wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 11:53:03PM -0400, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> > > According to Martijn (of MapRoulette fame), there is no way a challenge
> > can
> > > link to object IDs. MapRoulette can only highlight location. Nor can I
> > > provide a proposed fix, which means someone would have to manually find
> > the
> > > broken object, navigate to Wikipedia, copy/paste the title, and save the
> > > object.  I guesstimate 1 minute per object on average... that's nearly
> > 700
> > > hours of community time - a huge waste of human brain power that could be
> > > spent on a much more challenging and less automatable tasks.
> >
> > We'd have 40.000 more recently reviewed objects in the database. Given how
> > much the quality of the OSM data decays with time, I would consider that
> > a welcome boost to overall quality.
> >
> > And my experience with the OSM community is that there are a lot of people
> > who wouldn't consider such a task a waste of time but as a wonderful
> > opportunity to relax in the evening. Maproulette has the advantage that
> > you can just click away and do one object after the next. I would recommend
> > to break the 40.000 objects into local batches of 1000 or 2000 and just
> > load it into Maproulette. Add step-by-step isntructions how to fix the
> > links and I'm sure you'll be surprised how quickly everything is done.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Sarah
> >
> > >
> > > Osmose might be a good alternative, and might even lower the total number
> > > of hours required, but still - would that significantly benefit the
> > > project?  These tags are just a tiny arbitrary subset of one million
> > > wikipedia-tagged objects.  Verifying just them by hand seems like a waste
> > > of human intelligence. Instead, we can run queries to produce knowingly
> > bad
> > > objects and let community fix those. I hope we can let machines do
> > mindless
> > > tasks, and let humans do decision making.  This would improve
> > contributors
> > > morale, instead of making them feel like robots :)
> > >
> > > Clarifying: the OSM objects already point to those pages via redirect.
> > The
> > > redirect information is only stored in Wikipedia.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 11:18 PM, Marc Gemis <marc.gemis at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > or via Osmose ?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 5:16 AM, Marc Gemis <marc.gemis at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > what about a Maproulette task ?
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 5:11 AM, Yuri Astrakhan <
> > yuriastrakhan at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >> At the moment, there are nearly 40,000 OSM objects whose wikipedia
> > tag
> > > > does
> > > > >> not match their wikidata tag. Most of them are Wikipedia redirects,
> > > > whose
> > > > >> target is the right wikipedia article. If we are not ready to
> > abandon
> > > > >> wikipedia tags just yet (I don't think we should ATM), I think we
> > > > should fix
> > > > >> them.  Fixing them by hand seems like a huge waste of the community
> > > > time,
> > > > >> when it can be semi-automated.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I propose that a small program, possibly a plugin to JOSM, would
> > change
> > > > >> wikipedia tags to point to the target article instead of the
> > redirect.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thoughts?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> talk mailing list
> > > > >> talk at openstreetmap.org
> > > > >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> > > > >>
> > > >
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > talk at openstreetmap.org
> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> >
> >



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