[OSM-talk] How to teach novices about optimal changeset size?

Sat Jan 20 14:36:57 UTC 2018

Yes, I am aware of these buttons. Do you mean that we do Ctrl+S frequently
in order to do partial saves? I feel this might allow for greater chance
for conflicts to occur rather than uploading frequently.

On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 2:59 AM, althio <althio.forum at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Gaurav,
>
> In the row of buttons, the first two are "Open" and "Save": these actions
> are for files locally on your computer.
> Third and fourth buttons are "Download" and "Upload", commonly used to
> interact with OSM servers.
>
> -- althio
>
> On Jan 19, 2018 10:29 AM, "Gaurav Thapa" <gthapa.work at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Michael,
> > Could you tell me what buttons are used in JOSM for partial saves? Here
> in Nepal we frequently upload changes as internet is intermittent this
> feature would be greatly beneficial for us all.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Gaurav
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Michael Collinson <mike at ayeltd.biz>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Micah,
> >>
> >> I think you came up with a good answer to your conundrum in an earlier
> post in this thread: Don't explain what an optimal changeset IS, explain
> what it is NOT:
> >>
> >> Something like:
> >>
> >> "It helps other contributors understand your edits if you group what
> you are doing in a local area into one changeset. For example, if you are
> creating the outlines of 20 buildings, group them into one changeset. On
> the other hand, if you are adding 3 POIs, (points of interest),  that are
> 1000 km apart in different countries, then it is more useful to put them
> into 3 changesets.  Of course, if you are creating the outlines of 1,000
> buildings in your town, you do not have to do them all at once!
> >>
> >> If you worried about losing your data, our data editor software allows
> you to make incremental saves to the OSM server as you go along. iD does
> this automatically. Potlatch and JOSM have buttons that allow you to save
> partial work into a changeset and then keep adding to it until you are
> done."
> >>
> >> [This could probably be improved for readability by non-native English
> speakers. And the editor text should be fact checked, I am a die-hard
> Potlatch user.]
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> (first post for a long, long time)
> >>
> >>
> >> On 1/17/18 4:13 PM, Micah Brzozowski wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Certainly I am not intending to change the community and require every
> mapper to comply. If you're an experienced mapper, you're fine.
> >>>
> >>> I mean new users, who are not yet integrated with the community. Their
> work should be checked thoroughly (in Achavi, osmcha...). All novices make
> mistakes, after all. Better to give them good habits. By extension, smaller
> number of changeset will lead to less recycling of same changeset comments.
> >>>
> >>> I made this thread because I found it difficult to convey what is best
> practice in short form in changeset comments.
> >>>
> >>> Maybe I should simplify things when explaining to them? No need to
> tell all the conventions, just what is a good start - but hoping it won't
> backfire ;)
> >>>
> >>> 17.01.2018 3:35 PM "Imre Samu" <pella.samu at gmail.com> napisał(a):
> >>>>
> >>>> >  one changeset per building, repeated 20 times
> >>>>
> >>>> my typical use case:   House numbering on the street:  push the
> numbers & forget & go to the next house    ( fast feedback loop vs. Delayed
> gratification  )
> >>>> - sometimes the mobil app is crashing, and I don't want to go back
> 100m to re-enter - the last 5-10 numbers
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> > Obviously this makes them PITA to review quickly in Achavi or
> whatever tool you use.
> >>>>
> >>>> imho: it is easier to group the changeset on the reviewer side :  by
> user + by hour   ( group by user, hour )   than change the community.
> >>>>
> >>>> Imre
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 2018-01-17 15:13 GMT+01:00 Michał Brzozowski <www.haxor at gmail.com>:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Certainly not:
> >>>>> - one changeset per building, repeated 20 times
> >>>>> - one changeset for 3 POIs that are 1000 km apart in different
> countries
> >>>>>
> >>>>> These are real world examples. In the latter Achavi can often refuse
> to run.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That's also why I asked ;-) It's not that easy to formulate the
> answer what is reasonable to include in a changeset.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Michał
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 17.01.2018 2:54 PM "Tobias Zwick" <osm at westnordost.de> napisał(a):
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So, what is the optimal changeset size, and why?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Tobias
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 17/01/2018 14:26, Michał Brzozowski wrote:
> >>>>>> > Many new users have a habit of e.g. sending one or few objects per
> >>>>>> > changeset, resulting in a dozen or even more changesets per day.
> >>>>>> > Obviously this makes them PITA to review quickly in Achavi or
> whatever
> >>>>>> > tool you use.
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> > This habit is probably caused by non-knowledge of how auto-save
> works in
> >>>>>> > iD (which makes the work reasonably secure), as well as just not
> knowing
> >>>>>> > better thus forming their own judgement.
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> > How should we teach about optimal changeset size? This is quite
> tricky -
> >>>>>> > how we would define it?
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> > Can the iD nudge users towards better practice? (Linking to Good
> >>>>>> > changeset comments wiki page would be useful as well)
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> > Michał
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> > talk mailing list
> >>>>>> > talk at openstreetmap.org
> >>>>>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Gaurav Thapa
> > Project Manager
> > Secondary Cities Pokhara Project
> > Kathmandu Living Labs
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > talk mailing list
> > talk at openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> >
>

-- 
Gaurav Thapa
Project Manager
Secondary Cities Pokhara Project
Kathmandu Living Labs
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